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  1. Hi all, I work as a Security Guard for a larger retailer, recently I’ve been thinking about the legality of security guards arresting members of the public for shoplifting. I was wondering this, as to my understanding, shoplifting isn’t a criminal offence therefor not indictable if the value of the theft is below £200 so security have not powers of arrest in this situation. If I as a Security Guard, arrested someone and used reasonable force to bring them back into the store to await for police, could this get me charged for assault, fails imprisonments and/or kidnapping? Or or am I missing a part of the law that says otherwise? Thanks, shaun
  2. Chief Cheetah

    Who stole my dinner?

    I honestly have no answer for this and I am opening it for discussion and opinion. This stems from a conversation with a friend after a couple of beers last night. You enter a restaurant and after spending a few minutes reading the menu you make your choice. The Waiter takes your order and in good time your meal arrives looking splendid. A nice fillet steak with all the trimmings cooked exactly how you like it. You cut a piece off and eat it. At this point the door to the restaurant opens and a local rough sleeper runs in, grabs the steak off your plate and runs out with it in their grubby hands. So what are the offences and who is the aggrieved? Is it you the diner who has ordered the food and have every intention and means to pay (to my mind this would be an unwritten contract) or is the restaurant who hadn't yet received the payment for the steak? Opinions?
  3. A rather bizarre case, his intentions seemed to be good but ultimately led to the death of a completely innocent man.
  4. You're off duty in your favourite fast food restaurant when you see a marked van outside, the local SNT Sgt and a number of PCSOs out on patrol. A few PCSOs decide to go inside the restaurant and order some coffee. As they are on duty Police staff, the staff serve them free of charge. Are there any offences committed by the staff and PCSOs? If so what do you do: 1) Give words of advice to the offending party. 2) Report the matter later. 3) Have a word with the Sgt. 4) Turn a blind eye. 5) Something else.
  5. Sir Penguin

    Theft or Abstract electricity?

    Bob lives in a block of flats. He pays for his electricity on a top up meter system and has to put money on an electricity key which slots in to the meter. His meter is by the front door and there four more meters which belong to the other flats in the building. Jim (bob's neighbour) walks through the front door and notices that Bob has a balance of £60 on his meter. Jim decides to swap their electricity keys so that he now has a balance of £60 and doesn't have to pay for his own electricity for a while. What offences have been committed? Theft of the electricity key or abstracting electricity?
  6. Man found with 38 phones arrested at Libertines gig Thursday 28 January 2016 - Updated: Friday 29 January 2016 A man was arrested at a gig in Birmingham city centre last night (27 January) after 38 mobile phones were found stuffed inside his trousers. He was spotted acting suspiciously by police at the Libertines concert at the Barclaycard Arena, along with another man who tried to get inside the venue. Both of them had their trousers taped closed at the bottom of the legs. The men, aged 30, remain in custody today (28 January) on suspicion of theft, where they continue to be questioned. The arrests formed part of a proactive operation led by Birmingham Police, set up after intelligence suggested gig-goers had been targeted at another of the band’s performances in Manchester. Inspector Gareth Morris, who oversees local policing in the city, said: “It’s an unfortunately reality that large crowds at concerts such as this make rich pickings for career criminals. “We’re hot on the heels of these offenders but you can also reduce your chances of falling victim to such crimes by remaining extra vigilant when attending busy events. “If you think you had your phone taken last night, please get in touch with us and we can check whether or not we have been able to recover it.” People are urged to record details of their mobile phones and other valuables on the national property register at www.immobilise.com, which can help police reunite stolen items with owners. Anyone with information about theft in Birmingham should call police on 101 or the independent charity Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111. https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/news2.aspx?id=4084 A great find especially as phones have gone missing in large numbers at multiple gigs of the same artist. I wonder if door staff should be made aware of this. Would they have the power to stop someone with bulging trousers whilst exiting?
  7. [the boys] "explaining that they were not aware the items had special cultural significance." Really? What did they think they were doing there in the first place then? Link
  8. Collar

    "Re-allocating equipment"

    We had a discussion today following some radio batteries and a coat going missing, and of course in a non-literal sense, asking if persons who "re-allocate" police equipment are guilty of the offence of theft? The items are owned by the force, and the items are not leaving the force, so the force are not being permanently deprived of said items. I'm not suggesting we now all start logging when kit goes missing, just wondering to be honest, it's very random!
  9. Bedfordshire Police is again piling the pressure on car thieves following an increase in the theft of parts and whole Vauxhall motor vehicles. The force’s Operation King crackdown previously saw offences come to a halt, but the practice is now picking up again with a number of investigations ongoing. Detective Chief Inspector Ian Middleton said: “We have seen a rise in the theft of bumpers, seats and bonnets from Vauxhalls, as well as some incidents in which an entire car has been stolen from driveways and later found stripped of parts. “Vauxhall vehicles are particularly popular in Bedfordshire due to the long-standing connection of the company with the local area. We suspect that the prevalence of the vehicles coupled with the fact that even higher specification models are not routinely fitted with audible alarms makes them a target for these crimes. “We are working hard to build up an intelligence picture surrounding this type of offending, and want the culprits to know we take the theft of vehicles and parts extremely seriously. “We want to increase awareness among the public of these crimes and encourage them to report any illegal or suspicious activity, in order to help us catch those responsible and cut off the practice at its roots.” Enquiries are continuing to tackle the crime series and enforcement activity will be increased to deter offenders from striking. Residents are encouraged to take note of security advice including making sure all car doors and windows are locked and any alarm or immobiliser features are enabled. Car owners can also security mark their items using commercially-available product markers and consider fitting steering wheel locks when leaving their vehicle. Anyone who needs to repair or replace vehicle parts is strongly encouraged to use only a reputable and approved parts supplier and to ensure that the items they are purchasing are legitimately sourced. DCI Middleton added: "Clearly these offences are only being committed because there is a market for the stolen parts, so Bedfordshire Police needs the support of responsible vehicle owners to put a stop to the market that encourages such crime.” Anyone with information is urged to call police on 101, or text 07786 200 011. Alternatively, contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111. Source
  10. ForceHQ

    Home Security advice

    Not light hearted, but I didn't really know where else to stick it, anyway my parents house, well more the drive has seen two attempted thefts in as many months. I'm looking for some advice regarding security measures. Naturally I know the basics, but I'm hoping for some good advice from you guys. They have security lights and sensors and decent doors and windows and the house does have an alarm, but the drive way is well, just a drive way. The first thing is CCTV, I've no experience in buying and using from the other side. Any advice even if it seams patronising would be good. Even if it's just brands to avoid, or to avoid it altogether. I know it won't help physically stop anything, but it might be a minor deterrence and give my parents piece of mind. The other thing is target hardening, is it worth making access more difficult? The last attempt they cut a heavy duty padlock and chain of a trailer but where unable to get it past the car. So a close call. I think my father would like landlines, but realistically they need to be able to stop people coming into the drive with out making it look like the US/Mexican boarder. Cheers guys, appreciate it.
  11. Kim Farry claimed 'It really annoys me when people say I’ve never had a job because I worked at shoplifting for over four ­decades'     She is Britain’s most brazen shoplifter, boasting a designer wardrobe a star might envy.   Shameless Kim Farry has made close to £2million from the “business” she started aged nine – even training some of her six children to steal for her.   In a 44-year spree she has enjoyed fine dining, exotic holidays and three boob jobs, yet lives rent-free in a council home and pockets £556 a month in benefits.   She said: “I’m not ashamed of what I’ve done, I’m proud. "I was untouchable. I made millions and had a life most ­normal ­people can only dream of. “It really annoys me when people say I’ve never had a job because I worked at my business non-stop for over four ­decades. It just happens that my business was shoplifting.”   Kim claims she turned to crime to give herself and her family a better life – despite having three of her children taken from her during one of her jail spells.   While she is proud of her past she says she now realises she failed to raise her brood properly and is ­going straight for the sake of youngest daughter Paris, 14.   Astonishingly though, Kim refuses to give up her lavish lifestyle – and is calling for someone to hand her a decent job if she ­cannot rake in bigger benefits.   Otherwise the 54-year-old, who says she hasn’t swiped ­anything for eight weeks so far, doesn’t know how long it will be before she ­returns to thieving.   Kim told the Sunday People: “I will try but I’m going from ­riches to rags. Why would I give up living like an A-lister for this? This is the longest I’ve been without shoplifting since I was a child and it’s unbelievably hard.   “I’m used to being in the lap of luxury and never worrying about money. Now I’m back to wondering where my next meal is coming from. “The only reason I want to stop now is so my daughter won’t be punished for what I’ve done. I’ve lost enough loved ones through my crime and I don’t want to lose her too.   “It’s only now Paris is older I realise this is my last chance to get it right as a mother. I want her to be able to have her mates over and not worry about there being my gear all over the flat.   “But if I can’t get more money legally I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. If someone offered me a job I would take it and I’d work hard.   “I really don’t want to lose my ­daughter but I am struggling to live without the things I am used to and she is too.   “I need help and I hope that someone will read this and come to my rescue. Otherwise it’s only a matter of time ­before I go out there again.” Amazingly, Kim takes a swipe at the Government over her situation – ­suggesting it encourages crime by not paying out bigger benefits.   “I refuse to believe that anyone can live on the money provided by the Government in benefits,” she said.   “There’s no way I can maintain my lifestyle or anything close to it. The Government is living in denial if it thinks people are going to live on benefits and not do everything they can to top it up, illegal or not.   “I don’t want to but I know that if my TV breaks tomorrow or I can’t pay my phone bill or buy food, I will be back out there shoplifting.” Kim, posing in our pictures with an £800 leather coat from Bentalls of Kensington, a £500 pair of Yves Saint Laurent stilettos and a pair of Christian Dior pumps worth £300, all of which were stolen, has been jailed seven times on more than 50 charges of shoplifting.   But she says those 50 charges account for less than 1% of the items she has nicked, bragging that she operated for years at a time without being collared by the Metropolitan Police.   Her last six-week stint behind bars was when Paris was six weeks old. She admits she went out and stole a load of designer gear the day she was released.   Kim lives with her daughter in plush south west London. Tim Anderson Racket: Kim's haul of jackets On top of her illicit earnings and her free council apartment, she claims £120 a fortnight in disability living allowance for stress, £20 in weekly child benefit and £58 in child tax credits.   The lifestyle is a sharp contrast to her childhood as one of nine siblings raised by a single mum on benefits. She said: “If I hadn’t had the upbringing I had I probably never would have turned to shoplifting in the first place.   “I remember coming downstairs one morning when I was nine and my mum was sitting at the table with an egg in her hands, crying. I asked her what was wrong and she told me it was all the food we had to last until the end of the week. “I didn’t even think about it. I grabbed her shopping trolley and went out to the supermarket. I went up and down the aisles and threw everything we needed in then walked out.   “I was terrified but no one stopped me. It was easy.” Kim was soon stealing the family shopping every week, plus toys and goodies for herself. At ten she was arrested for the first time after swiping a Marc Bolan pin badge from a local shop – but nothing happened, which only encouraged her. At 14 she was expelled from school and was stealing everything from clothes to cassettes and booze. Even two stints in youth detention failed to deter her and when she was 16 she ­decided to make a “career” of scamming store attendants and security staff.   Kim boasted: “I just had a talent for it. I could disguise myself with wigs and make-up or by changing outfits and 99 times out of 100 no one suspected.   “I used to nick a load of stuff then go and have a cuppa with the security guards, that’s how good I was. When I had been doing it for a few years I realised it was more about attitude than anything else. I could steal anything.   “One day I went past MFI and there was a display outside with electrical ­appliances. The biggest one was a cooker, so I thought I’d go for that. “I went back with a bloke who had a van and we just lifted it up and walked off. No one stopped us.” “It was just something that came ­naturally to me so it seemed silly not to do it. I started to get a name for myself and people knew to come to me.” Tim Anderson Designer crime: Serial shoplifter Kim loves high fashion Kim developed a system of stealing as much as she could from designer clothes stores then having other girls return the goods to exchange them for credit notes or vouchers.   She then sold those on at half their market value, building up a loyal ­customer base that included teachers, lawyers and the wives of police officers. Kim said: “Sometimes I would sell on the vouchers for River Island, Topshop, M&S and all the high-street shops but I shoplifted to order too.   “I stole countless designer outfits, even fish tanks. You name it, I could get it and when I sold it on I made a packet. It was a good living.” Demand was so great that Kim, who married and started a family in her 20s, trained her three oldest children to help from the age of around 12. Over 38 years of running her ­“business” seriously, she was stealing goods worth up to £7,000 a month. After paying accomplices her take-home came to ­almost £50,000 a year. “I just loved money and no matter how much I had I wanted more,” said Kim.   “I had no registered income because once I had a criminal record no one would have given me a job, so why shouldn’t I claim income support? “I knew what it was like to be the kid that had nothing so I went to the other extreme and made sure we had everything. I don’t regret the stealing because I don’t think I was hurting ­anyone. It’s not like I was going into people’s homes.” Tim Anderson Luxury: Home has mod-cons But Kim admits her drive to provide for herself and her children materially made her neglect other crucial areas. Her three oldest children were taken off her to be raised by her dad as she started one jail term – and she maintains this is her only real regret. She said: “I don’t think anything hurt anyone personally but I will always regret the fact that I didn’t get to bring up my kids myself.   "When I went to prison my eldest three went to live with my dad and his girlfriend. My marriage had already broken down because of my business so losing my kids was really hard too.   “People might wonder why I didn’t stop then but in my head I was doing more for my kids by getting them ­everything they wanted with my takings than by looking after them. I always thought I was helping people as well as maintaining my luxury lifestyle.”   Although she says she is trying to refocus her idea of how best to provide for Paris, whether or not Kim can stay on the straight and narrow remains to be seen. She adds: “I have standards. I like to go to the gym, I have my nails done and hair extensions. I eat all-organic and drink bottled water.   “I’m used to eating out in the nicest restaurants several times a week, riding in black cabs and being able to book in for Botox at the drop of a hat. “It’s not easy going back to being just another benefits mum. I live constantly knowing I could go out and steal anything I want and not get caught.” Kim Farry has not been paid for this story. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/britains-most-shameless-shoplifter-ive-5251139    
  12. Source: http://www.nottinghampost.com/CSO-stole-police/story-26412497-detail/story.html#ixzz3YmZVmSLP What a complete pillock!
  13. Guilty: Cold-hearted Scott Stephenson (right) admitted theft at South Tyneside Magistrates Court while Dale Walker admitted handling stolen goods   Two friends, who abandoned a man lying in the freezing street, stole his mobile phone and left him to die of hypothermia, a court heard. Scott Stephenson, 19, and Dale Walker, 25, got off the train with the 22-year-old victim and left the station together.   The 22-year-old suggested the threesome continue to socialise at one of their homes and they ran off together. But the victim tripped, fell and landed in the road.   Stephenson and Walker returned 30 minutes later and found the unnamed lad still lying there unconscious in the early hours of a cold December night.   But instead of helping him or calling an ambulance Stephenson rummaged through his pockets. Stephenson stole his iPhone 4 - the one thing the victim could have used to dial 999 or family and friends.   He stole the handset while Walker looked on - leaving their victim to shiver to death, a court heard. The next morning the victim's body was discovered in the alley in South Shields, Tyne and Wear, and a post-mortem concluded he died of hypothermia.   Cold-hearted Stephenson admitted theft at South Tyneside Magistrates Court while Walker admitted handling stolen goods.   Keith Laidlaw prosecuting said: "They found him lying there. Stephenson said he was breathing and snoring. "He searched his pocket and stole a mobile phone. Walker later said that he watched as Stephenson stole the phone from the victim's pocket. "Now, the defendants have said as far as they were concerned, they felt he was alive and sleeping at the time the property was taken. "The victim was vulnerable, he was 22, just a young man. The ramifications of what happened spread far beyond the victim." SWNS Cold-hearted: Scott Stephenson, 19, leaving South Tyneside Magistrate's Court after he admitted stealing a mobile phone from a man as he lay dying Stephenson and Walker had travelled on a train with the victim before getting off at Chichester - a station on the Yellow Line of the Tyne and Wear Metro.   During the night of December 17 the victim suggested they continue to socialise at one of their homes but the pair declined and ran off. He chased after them but tripped and fell to the ground and Stephenson and Walker, both from South Shields, continued running off.   District Judge Helen Cousins committed the pair to Newcastle Crown Court on April 13 where they can be handed more severe sentences. She said: "They have taken away the one thing that would have allowed him to get help if he was able to."   Stephenson's Facebook site is peppered with his low opinion of the law and says his middle name is ACAB - standing for 'all cops are bastards'. Scott 19, also make many references to drugs - including a pictures of him smoking a what looks like a joint. The main image on the top of his page is a large piece of colourful graffiti that reads "ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS!' SWNS Guilty: Dale Walker, 25, (left) admitted handling stolen goods at South Tyneside Magistrate's Court His personal information states that he worked at H.M.P. Homie House and went to 'bad boy school'. In November 2013 there appear to be references to Stephenson handing himself into the police and the police banging at his door. It reads: "Off my f*cking lips cops being banging on me door can thay not see am not giveing my self up."   Another reference to his criminal past is visible in a reference from February 2014. It reads: "Hand me self in tomorrow then to H.M.P durham a go".   Stephenson makes several references to a tag in his posts, he may be referring to an electronic tag which is issued by the probation service to track offenders.   A post from December 2013 reads: "Have a drink with the girls and boys before me tag don't think am going in to night but this 1 kid eddy is getting it". Another from January 2012 read: "Am on tag and am sniffin awt me face cum awt to marra like about 3oclock xx". There are many references to drugs form March 2015 back to 2012.   Some examples read: "Whos got the bubbz in give me a inbox (bubbz believed to be an abbreviation of bubbles, a slang name for drugs). "On the bubble but the green has wiped me out sill wkd buzz tho out me tits. "Geting high stoned as a c*** then going tohome to see my babe. "STILL FEEL LIKE AM OUT ME NUT BUT F*** IT A CAN NOT GIVE A F*** GO AND GET ME GREEN A HOPE".   http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-thieves-stole-iphone-man-5403805   Vermin like this needs dealing with, appaling behaviour!  
  14. I've been doing a town centre shift today where I received a call over a radio that a male had been 'seen acting suspiciously' in a particular shop. The store security guard said that he manually set off the security alarms deliberately to enable him to search the person when they attempted to leave. I've not encounter this sort of thing before. I don't see that there would be an offence from the store as they cannot force anyone to consent to a search, but it did get me thinking. Doesn't sound very legit. What are your opinions on the legality and ethics of the practice?
  15. "Brofixia" enters a well known supermarket chain to purchase some toroidal pastries for his chums at the nick. He scans these heavenly hoops at the self service till and the total comes to £2.05. As he pulls a £2 coin out of his pocket, Brofixia notices 5p that has been left behind by a previous customer in the rejected coin tray. He smiles to himself, adds it to his £2 and is able to pay with the exact change. Brofixia is an honest chap, so as he leaves the store he 'pays it forward', dropping a quid in a charity tin. Brofixia is also a curious chap, and wonders whether (technically) his actions amount to an offence.
  16. jviney


    John Smith is a Special Constable with Independent Patrol status who has a day job in a shop. One day whilst John is at his day job Dave the security guard catches a shoplifter. Should Dave detain the shoplifter himself under S24A, or must/should John step in and perform the arrest? Obviously if Dave doesn't know that John is a Special he is well within his S24A rights, but what if Dave knows John is a Special? Would it not therefore appear to Dave that John can reasonably make the arrest (assuming that John is not otherwise engaged at the time), therefore rendering Dave unable to do so himself?
  17. source What's with all the scum these days? I'm sorry to say but even if caught and convicted it will be an absolutely nothing punishment.
  18. source Well I have a new yard stick for scum bags. Also: "Shaw was the boyfriend of her 15-year-old granddaughter" and "Shaw, 19"... Maybe someone should look into "other offences".
  19. kenworthy

    Kidney transfer!

    A bit gruesome I know. Mr A gets clobbered over the head only to wake up in hospital with a missing kidney, through good police work we find out who hit him, the doctor who performed the operation and who paid that person to carry out the misdeed, call him Mr B. The person who paid for this criminal act (Mr B) has by now got the kidney installed into his daughter by the doctor. The kidney is working well in it`s new host. First problem is Mr A wants his kidney back, he needs it to live on. Do we therefore have to get Mr B`s daughter and open her up in order to retrieve the kidney? Out of these people, who is charged with theft and assault? The person who assaulted Mr A? Mr B for paying for the assault? The daughter of Mr B who is in possession of stolen item? The doctor who knew where kidney came from? We can take it as given that The daughter knew of the assault, as did Mr B, the doctor and the assailant. Second problem arises when Mr A dies two months later due to an infection caused by the operation from removing the kidney. Once again who gets charged this time the charge might be murder or manslaughter?
  20. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/asda-shoplifters-posting-stolen-dvds-to-themselves-using-instore-post-office-10008709.html [emoji1] Very clever criminals!
  21. source I would question the wisdom of keeping something apparently so prized in a garden shed but that doesn't make the people who stole it any less scum (I would guess they didn't know the significance of it to someone they were just out stealing but anyone who takes another's property like this is scum so point still stands). Below is a facebook post from Hampshire police about it just incase you need to raise your blood pressure by reading some of the comments. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hampshire-Constabulary/22018596340?fref=nf
  22. My local council posted the above on their Facebook this morning. Does anyone else think it is terribly irresponsible of them to be telling everyone to report to the police whenever anyone used grit salt for personal use? I can understand if someone is coming along and emptying the bin completely to sell it but I would suggest people using it for their own purposes is not theft in the slightest as I doubt there is any dishonesty due to a belief they are ok to take it.
  23. cookyy2k

    Theft of information

    I went call out a while ago and there was some debate between me and the regular (neither of us knew for certain), as it was we dealt with it but I've been wondering ever since... Late one Friday evening we got sent to a domestic. The male (whose house it was) had taken the female's mobile phone when she wasn't looking and locked himself in the bathroom with it. He said he had full intention of returning it to her after he had read her messages (suspecting infidelity), she did not want him to see certain messages she had been keeping secret (for whatever reason). There was no argument or altercation, he had just quietly taken it and her first reaction was call the police because he had "stolen" her phone. She wanted to go home and wasn't leaving without her phone but seemed more upset about the texts being read. Obviously there is no theft of the phone as he was going to give it back to her and there wasn't an assault or the like either. The discussion me and the reg were having is can the information (or confidentiality of) be "stolen". In the end we negotiated the return of the phone and gave her a lift home, intel was submitted but no further action taken against the boyfriend. So what offenses have been committed here and what would you have done in real life (since academic discussion of offences is all well and good but we have discretion for a reason!)?

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