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Need Motorcycle experts help!


lee2014
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Hi All,

Just to be clear I am not a member of the force nor am I considering joining although I have great respect for you all.

I am posting here in the hopes of finding a little help and advice from a motorbike expert.

I was arrested in April for Dangerous driving on a motorbike, I was with 3 others and accused of pulling wheelies on the M25. I can hand on heart say that I personally was doing no such thing and have been bailed, rebailed and now told I will need to attend the station tomorrow to be charged.

The 3 bikes I were with were all 1000CC super sports, 2 R1's and a Blade, all with bhp of around 175.

I am 23 and much younger than the other guys, I was riding a 2007 Z1000 which is 952c and has a bhp of around 122.

The video of a bike pulling a wheelie which is alleged to be me is lifting the wheel at around 80mph and riding it out very easily.

The other bikes are almost 50% more powerful than mine and I am pretty sure my bike is not capable of lifting the front wheel at those speeds, or at least without masses of experience and skill which I do not posses having had my bike for only 3 months at the time and very modestly powered Er6 and SV650's prior to this bike.

I am really really hoping a police motorbike expect can add some credibility to the above and help me with this as losing my licence is really worrying me and the duty solicitor said that a witness statement alone could result in a conviction.

I have had my licence almost 2 years now, I have never been arrested before and have a completely clean licence. I normally only use my bike to commute to work and this was the very first time I went on a ride out with other bikers.

I know it may seem a little cheeky posting on here asking for a little help but I really don't know what else to do.

Thank you in advance to anyone who contributes to this thread.

Kind regards,

Lee

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Go and get proper legal advice. Based on what you have told me, you have a strong case, but then again there are 2 sides to every story.

Lots of times you get free legal cover through your/your parents home insurance - probably best to check that out. It doesnt generally affect your NCB.

Edited by pottheed
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Firstly,

Our standard disclaimer: This forum is not intended as a legal advice drop-in centre. PoliceSpecials.com disclaims any and all responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, reliability, operability or availability of information or material on this site, including - but not limited to - the documents available in the 'Reference Library' and 'Downloads' areas.

Please note that comments and advice given here with the best of intentions by the host, moderators or other users of the forum may not be correct, and that any advice given, in particular advice on the law and its application, is no substitute for personal legal advice from a solicitor.

Secondly,

The minutia of BHP aside, all these bikes are easily distinguishable and if you are on video lofting a minger then you are pretty much banged to rights.

You do realise what will probably happen to your licence as you haven't had it for 2 years yet don't you?

Thirdly,

This topic has nothing to do with the Special Constabulary or policing in the UK so moved to Help Me!

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Firstly,

Our standard disclaimer: This forum is not intended as a legal advice drop-in centre. PoliceSpecials.com disclaims any and all responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, reliability, operability or availability of information or material on this site, including - but not limited to - the documents available in the 'Reference Library' and 'Downloads' areas.

Please note that comments and advice given here with the best of intentions by the host, moderators or other users of the forum may not be correct, and that any advice given, in particular advice on the law and its application, is no substitute for personal legal advice from a solicitor.

Secondly,

The minutia of BHP aside, all these bikes are easily distinguishable and if you are on video lofting a minger then you are pretty much banged to rights.

You do realise what will probably happen to your licence as you haven't had it for 2 years yet don't you?

As I said in my original post, I can hand on heart say that it was not me.

It is also pretty clear from the video too as the bike had an under seat exhaust and my bike has 2 very large triangular exhausts either side of it, they have confirmed they will be charging all 4 of us.

The video evidence is very unclear as it was recorded by a member of the public on their phone and they were positioned quite a way back.

Pottheed - thank you very much for that piece of advice, I will ask my dad about the home insurance.

If I could get a manufacturer to state that my particular bike doesn't possess the torque to perform a wheelie at those speeds, how significant would this be?

if it Is proven that it was not me in the video, is it still possible for all of us to get convicted on some sort of reasonable grounds that we were all engaging in the same sort of behaviour or something?

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Update us tomorrow, if you get charged then I'd say the evidence is sound enough for reasonable chance of conviction.

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Update us tomorrow, if you get charged then I'd say the evidence is sound enough for reasonable chance of conviction.

Ok, thank you both for taking the time to reply, It is very much appreciated.

Lee

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Ok, thank you both for taking the time to reply, It is very much appreciated.

Lee

Seek legal advice whatever happens and let your solicitor decide if there is a benefit of exploring and testing the evidence - being charged doesn't make you guilty only that you may be and it would be for the prosecution to prove the case - seek legal advise as it is your licence at stake

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As I said in my original post, I can hand on heart say that it was not me.

It is also pretty clear from the video too as the bike had an under seat exhaust and my bike has 2 very large triangular exhausts either side of it, they have confirmed they will be charging all 4 of us.

The video evidence is very unclear as it was recorded by a member of the public on their phone and they were positioned quite a way back.

Pottheed - thank you very much for that piece of advice, I will ask my dad about the home insurance.

If I could get a manufacturer to state that my particular bike doesn't possess the torque to perform a wheelie at those speeds, how significant would this be?

if it Is proven that it was not me in the video, is it still possible for all of us to get convicted on some sort of reasonable grounds that we were all engaging in the same sort of behaviour or something?

lee2014, it all seems very strange,I am not a motorcyclist I hasten to add, not since the front wheel spindle sheared on my BMW scrambler when I was sixteen, I went over the handle bars, the bike landed on top of me putting a big dent in the petrol tank, how I survived intact and without breaking my neck I have no idea,but my dad wouldn't mend it and wouldn't let me near another one, however,to get back to the point, I would like to ask what sort of clothing was the person wearing who was doing the wheelie? Were there any distinguishing features of the leathers or helmet,I am presuming they were similar to yours etc,but maybe they were different,Are you familiar with the the eight points of Turnbull in so far as it relates to visual evidence,if not you could do a lot worse than to have a quick look at it, it should be on the internet somewhere.Rich.
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Hi Rich,

The person in the video was one of the other 3 but i of course dont want to outright say who and incriminate anyone directly.

The person in the video was in full leathers including boots, I was wearing a pair of blue chinos and blue vans with a white sole so pretty easy to distinguish. However the video isnt very clear and from the distance it was recorded it is hard to point out small details.

I have just downloaded and read a pdf doc that states the 8 points of turnball.

The solicitor said they had continuity as the police showed up and pulled us over, the witness who had recorded the incidents had also pulled up behind us and comfirmed it was us.

They have shown the footage to 3 out of the 4 of us and said "this is the footage that pertains to you in particular" so they arent quite sure who they think it is but the witness alleged the guy on the black bike (me) was the ring leader and pulling wheelies. The other 2 bikes were blue and black, red and black so from far away it would be easy to point anyone out as being a black bike. Its really frustrating that i am even in the firing line because i wasnt pulling any wheelies at all, let alone riding out a long wheelie and changing lanes like in the video.

If it is proved that is wasnt me in the video, does the witnesses statement become uncredible as she has clearly made a mistake with identifying the colours of the bikes?

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Completely off topic, for which I apologise, but.

You were on the motorway, doing motorway speeds I'm guessing, and wearing chinos and vans (as in trainer style shoes)?

How long would they protect you for if you dropped it?

Again, apologies for off-topic ness, but please, please wear the correct gear :)

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lee2014, maybe she was colour blind,how good was her eyesight?was the driver taking the video or was it a passenger?There certainly seems to some ambiguity in the id of the offender from what you are saying, but as above posters have said to you,get a good solicitor and I'm sure justice will be done,Rich.

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Guest ----

I'm guessing they've studied the video and if as your solicitor says they have continuity then I can't see where the witnesses can be wrong. If it's on the M25 I'd be surprised if it wasn't a traffic car that stopped the bikes and will most likely have video evidence itself of riders,particularly when they remove crash helmets. So clothing etc should all be recorded there.

If they've shown you the footage and said this is the bit that pertains to you then I can't see why there is any doubt in their minds which bike was doing what. On one hand you say it's quite hard to pick out detail from the video yet at the same time you say it's clear the bike, that they say you were riding, had under seat exhausts.

Are you saying that none of your group were pulling wheelies and the witness is mistaken or you were part of a group and it was the other bikes with you that were pulling wheelies and they've gone for the wrong biker?

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I was in a group of 4, im not saying no one was doing any wheelies, i personally wasnt.

They have arrested all 4 of us, bailed, rebailed and have to attend today to be charged.

They have shown the video to 3 of us and accused us all in our individual interviews of being the rider in the video using the same "this pertains to you" line. Obviously it has to be 1 of us 3 but i know for sure it wasnt me as i cant even pull wheelies and my bike as i mentioned is nowhere near as powerful as the other guys.

I dont understand how they can charge all of us though?

Surely they cant convict all of us if they havent identified exactly which one of us it was in the video?

In the video the driver is on the phone to the police reporting it whilst her passenger records.

She also exaggerates massively, she says the rider is standing on the seat doing a wheelie when he is clearly sitting. She also says "oh my god they have just slammed on their brakes and all the cars have had to emergency brake" but you can clearly see no brake lights come on and no ones speed alters...

Im her statement she also claims we slow to under 20mph....on the M25!

Surely she cant be taken as a credible witness when saying rubbish like that?

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Guest ----

I was in a group of 4, im not saying no one was doing any wheelies, i personally wasnt.

They have arrested all 4 of us, bailed, rebailed and have to attend today to be charged.

They have shown the video to 3 of us and accused us all in our individual interviews of being the rider in the video using the same "this pertains to you" line. Obviously it has to be 1 of us 3 but i know for sure it wasnt me as i cant even pull wheelies and my bike as i mentioned is nowhere near as powerful as the other guys.

I dont understand how they can charge all of us though?

Surely they cant convict all of us if they havent identified exactly which one of us it was in the video?

In the video the driver is on the phone to the police reporting it whilst her passenger records.

She also exaggerates massively, she says the rider is standing on the seat doing a wheelie when he is clearly sitting. She also says "oh my god they have just slammed on their brakes and all the cars have had to emergency brake" but you can clearly see no brake lights come on and no ones speed alters...

Im her statement she also claims we slow to under 20mph....on the M25!

Surely she cant be taken as a credible witness when saying rubbish like that?

Maybe she wont be credible. However the video is.

be guided by your solicitor or plead guilty by post..

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I'm struggling with that last part....


I've been on the M25, I can't believe that you've managed to go over 20mph :D



Seriously however, it's difficult for anyone on here to give an opinion. We've only got one side of the story, yours, and while I'm not (I'm sure none of us are) saying that you're 'bending the truth' we don't have the benefit of being able to read the witness statement(s) or watching the video.

The officers dealing with the case however have seen all of the available evidence, and they'll have already run the lot past their boss (probably) and the CPS, and if you are charged, they must feel that there is a realistic chance of conviction.

You can, at this point, either take your solicitors advice, or get a new solicitor and fight it. However, if you fight it and are found guilty the punishment is likely to be more harsh than it would be for being credited for an early guilty plea (if indeed you are guilty).

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