Jump to content

Another mobile telephone question?


Princey2k5
 Share

Recommended Posts

This post is not in any way intending to be an alternative to seeking legal advice but here goes.

To put it in basic terms, a work collegue of mine was pulled over as he took his phone off his passenger seat as the alarm was blaring away and his van is kitted with two hands free bluetooth devices so te alarm was sounding through the speakers. In the short time it was going off, he picked it up, pressed the button to turn it off and placed it in the windscreen mounted holder.

20 seconds later, a marked police car equipped with no video recording or anpr equipment pulls him over for being on the phone. He explains whats gone on but officer in car insists he hears stuff like that all the time and issues him with an FPN.

My collegue gets invited to a phone awareness course for £85 instead of the points. Now, does he bite the bullet and take the offer for an offence he did not commit? 'that is providing he didnt break the law, comments on that are very much appreciated' :new_hmmm: or does he take it to court to plea as he can prove he did not send a text or make a call at the time of the incident by contacting his service provider and the policeman was on his own so no other officer witness to back him up.

What would the officers on here do if you were the officer who pulled my collegue and what would you do if you were my collegue? Im intrigued as it seems a very ropey law that needs stiffening up.

I personally believe if your seen As so much holding a phone whilst operating a vehicle, its game over unless of course its a 999, 112 emergency call or situation.

Thanks

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Burnsy2023

    10

  • wanabe

    6

  • Administrative Account

    5

If the phone was in his hand, the offence is complete.

If he explained the circs to the officer, he's basically admitted the offence and the officer would have noted down his comments at the time.

I hear 101 excuses as to why people had a phone in their hand. If I stopped him, he'd be getting a ticket. If they want to argue I just highlight the bit on the back of the ticket that explains what to do if they want to go to court...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly;

Our standard disclaimer: This forum is not intended as a legal advice drop-in centre. PoliceSpecials.com disclaims any and all responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, reliability, operability or availability of information or material on this site, including - but not limited to - the documents available in the 'Reference Library' and 'Downloads' areas.

Please note that comments and advice given here with the best of intentions by the host, moderators or other users of the forum may not be correct, and that any advice given, in particular advice on the law and its application, is no substitute for personal legal advice from a solicitor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the phone was in his hand, the offence is complete.

Someone needs to read the legislation. Your missing the "using" part of the offence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone needs to read the legislation. Your missing the "using" part of the offence.

Exactly...

I would say in this scenario there is a use of the mobile phone and so the offence is complete. The fact is that it's a mobile phone. As soon as he has pressed the button to cancel the alarm there is a use of the phone.

If the phone was in his hand, the offence is complete.

If he explained the circs to the officer, he's basically admitted the offence and the officer would have noted down his comments at the time.

I hear 101 excuses as to why people had a phone in their hand. If I stopped him, he'd be getting a ticket. If they want to argue I just highlight the bit on the back of the ticket that explains what to do if they want to go to court...

So do you issue tickets just because the mobile phone is in their hand whilst driving? Or do you have to see them performing some use of the phone before issuing the ticket?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since when has it been an offence to hold a phone in your hand whilst driving?

Someone needs to read the legislation. Your missing the "using" part of the offence.

Oh come off it you two, knock it off.

If we didn't, or couldn't give tickets to people that were seen to be merely "holding" a mobile phone, then everyone would say "I was only holding it officer". And we'd all believe that every time, wouldn't we :new_hmmm:

If you ain't using it, it doesn't need to be in your hand. Tickets Please!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say in this scenario there is a use of the mobile phone and so the offence is complete. The fact is that it's a mobile phone. As soon as he has pressed the button to cancel the alarm there is a use of the phone.

No. He must be performing an "interactive communication function", cancelling an alarm is not an communication function.

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

(b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);

©“interactive communication function” includes the following:

(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;

(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;

(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and

(iv)providing access to the internet;

Oh come off it you two, knock it off.

If we didn't, or couldn't give tickets to people that were seen to be merely "holding" a mobile phone, then everyone would say "I was only holding it officer". And we'd all believe that every time, wouldn't we :new_hmmm:

If you ain't using it, it doesn't need to be in your hand. Tickets Please!

We can't be giving tickets to people who haven't broken the law. Talking to them will usually get them admitting they were texting or on a call. If they suggest otherwise you can seize the phone to check or just check operator usage records. Yes it's work, but at the end of the day we're here to enforce the law (amongst other things).

Edited by Burnsy2023
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burnsy, all that you've quoted there is the definition of what an "Interactive communication function" is. No where in what you've posted does it say that they have to be using an 'interactive communication function' for the offence to be complete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite possibly driving without due care and attention, but not using a mobile phone as, as Burnsy has said, you must be using it as a communications device for the offence to be complete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burnsy, all that you've quoted there is the definition of what an "Interactive communication function" is. No where in what you've posted does it say that they have to be using an 'interactive communication function' for the offence to be complete.

Damsel, surely you should know this is in the legeslation? Have you ever read it?

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/regulation/2/made

Edited by Burnsy2023
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would the officers on here do if you were the officer who pulled my collegue and what would you do if you were my collegue? Im intrigued as it seems a very ropey law that needs stiffening up.

how so, exactly? if you're busy messing about with your phone while driving, whether you are texting/phoning or not, attempting to turn off alarms/play angry birds/whatever else on that device means you're concentrating on that and not the road and thus a danger to other road users. He should've pulled over and done it with the engine off. He didn't.

How about if he ran over a small child who ran out between parked cars? would that be okay because he was "turning off his alarm"?

If it was me, personally, given the circumstances you described, i.e. witnessing him reaching over to the passenger seat, picking up his phone, turning the alarm off, messing with his phone in the window mount... he'd have been done for not being in proper control of his vehicle. Why? because (from your description) he clearly wasn't in proper control of his vehicle while doing all that... simple.

Also, i presume your in E&W? If that is the case, the officer doesn't need anyone to "back him up", video recording equipment or anything else. It can be helpful, but certainly not a requirement like it is in scotland. Just for future reference.

Also, anpr? as in Automatic Number Plate Recognition system? that's got nothing to do with driving whilst using a mobile phone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what you're suggesting then is....

It's ok to pick up your handheld mobile phone if it's ringing, just to see who's calling you. Because you're not actually using it, your just looking at it.

If the above is true, the same could be said for reading a text message or an email.

As I said, if the phone isn't in "use", then it doesn't need to be in your hand. QED, if the phone is in your hand, then you must be using it for something and thereby interacting with it, and completing the offence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh come off it you two, knock it off.

If we didn't, or couldn't give tickets to people that were seen to be merely "holding" a mobile phone, then everyone would say "I was only holding it officer". And we'd all believe that every time, wouldn't we :(

If you ain't using it, it doesn't need to be in your hand. Tickets Please!

So your handing out tickets for holding a mobile phone without any evidence of use? Dodgy tickets...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...