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Explosions reported near Kyiv after Putin authorises 'military operation' in Ukraine | Ukraine latest


Equin0x
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https://news.sky.com/story/explosions-reported-near-kyiv-after-putin-authorises-military-operation-in-ukraine-ukraine-latest-12541713

It does seem to have all kicked off now. Ukrainian government and banking websites being hammered by what we have to assume is Russian DDOS and hacking attacks. I don't normally use social media but decided to have a look on Twitter and there's videos of air strikes, explosions, anti aircraft fire. Bit concerned about how quickly things could escalate, the US and Russia both have enough nuclear weapons to obliterate the planet and both equally unwilling to back down and insistent the other must do so. Makes me wonder if we have any civil defence shelters left?

Edited by Equin0x
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The Americans and Russians/former Soviets have a history of not directly engaging in warfare with one another during the proxy conflicts of the Cold War. Generally it was interference or direct conflict with smaller nations backed by the other country - for example Vietnam and in the 80s Afghanistan.

I don’t think much will change or the Americans will begin a bombing campaign of Russia. Or vice versa. Like you say it would be catastrophic and lead to retaliatory escalation and serve the interests of no one.

Russia will probably occupy some or most of the Ukraine in the next few weeks and there’ll be guerrilla style conflicts between the two like in Chechnya.

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RT saying that Ukraine has attacked two civilian ships. Don't think they would do so deliberately, it would be stupid, no benefit to them whatsoever and would make it seem like Russia was justified in their "peacekeeping" actions. But with everyone on edge and more willing to shoot first ask questions later, has there been a tragic error? It's also possible that RT has falsified the entire report, although it's not like them to tell an outright lie (no I don't think they are impartial or anything, just that they prefer the type of propaganda where there's a nugget of truth and they twist it to portray a specific narrative rather than an outright false claim that can be debunked). My guess is maybe they tried hitting a Russian warship, hit the wrong target by mistake, and the Russian media will make it out to be a deliberate attack on civilians.

Edited by Equin0x
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Would anyone believe Russian propaganda. It is not beyond them to have attacked a couple of civilian ships themselves.  Well they have Snowden who could act as an advisor.  We can also remember that they are not adverse to attacking and poisoning their own countrymen with Novichok, within other countries.

The Russians rarely respect lives.

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6 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Would anyone believe Russian propaganda. It is not beyond them to have attacked a couple of civilian ships themselves.  Well they have Snowden who could act as an advisor.  We can also remember that they are not adverse to attacking and poisoning their own countrymen with Novichok, within other countries.

The Russians rarely respect lives.

If you'd bothered to at least have an open mind about Snowden and read his book, you'd know that while he was approached by Russian intelligence soon after arriving in the country (which is just common sense from their perspective and let's not pretend our spooks at GCHQ wouldn't be making similar offers to Russian whistleblower in similar circumstances) he very quickly shut them down. He explained that he'd worked in intelligence, so he knew what the game was, knew that this was their "sales pitch", but he wanted nothing to do with it and would not give them any intel.

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1 hour ago, Equin0x said:

If you'd bothered to at least have an open mind about Snowden and read his book, you'd know that while he was approached by Russian intelligence soon after arriving in the country (which is just common sense from their perspective and let's not pretend our spooks at GCHQ wouldn't be making similar offers to Russian whistleblower in similar circumstances) he very quickly shut them down. He explained that he'd worked in intelligence, so he knew what the game was, knew that this was their "sales pitch", but he wanted nothing to do with it and would not give them any intel.

There are things people say

There are things people write

And there is the truth which is often hidden, disguised or denied.

Well Sir, he would say that wouldn’t he.

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Ukraine is effectively lost now, no way they'll be able to hold off the Russian offensive for very long without military help from the outside - by military help I mean direct assistance from ourselves, boots on the ground. 

Russia wont push on into NATO nations. 

Very dangerous and a return to Cold War posturing - concerning farther East will be China and Taiwan, the relatively weak response from the west will simply encourage a CCP takeover. 

Edited by Radman
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3 hours ago, Radman said:

Ukraine is effectively lost now, no way they'll be able to hold off the Russian offensive for very long without military help from the outside - by military help I mean direct assistance from ourselves, boots on the ground. 

Russia wont push on into NATO nations. 

Very dangerous and a return to Cold War posturing - concerning farther East will be China and Taiwan, the relatively weak response from the west will simply encourage a CCP takeover. 

‘Weak men make hard times’.

The west won’t go into direct conflict with regular troops against Russia. It has no financial benefit. 
 

The fall of the USSR taught us one thing, the Russians didn’t have the capability we believed they did. The Ukrainians are proving this is true again. 

An insurgency will ensue at the fall of the capital and that will never be won, even more so when Russia’s finances start to suffer.

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The Ukrainians have known their freedom and democracy and will not give it up. Russia might just meet their second Afghanistan.  The Russians need to get rid of Putin, a man with no scruples. IT is one thing for Russian Soldiers to invade a Country they do not really care about whereas the Ukrainian's are defending their home land and like the Afghans will do it with heroism and passion.

Edited by Zulu 22
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The Russian approach is strange for anyone used to the Western approach in Iraq i.e. massive air attacks and an overwhelming ratio of armed forces to fight the Iraqi army.  By contrast the Russian bombardment was tiny and doesn't seem to have damaged much infrastructure neither is their force anything close to twice the size of the Ukrainian army let alone 3 or 4 times the size.  They have however invaded on at least three fronts  which will have divided the Ukrainian response.  It looks like they will have a massive insurgency on their hands if and when they 'win' given that the population is by and large anti Russian.  

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What is the overall objective for Putin? Is it to overthrow the Ukrainian Government and install puppet regime?

Once he has taken control of Ukraine is he planning to attack neighbouring countries?

 

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2 hours ago, skydiver said:

The Russian approach is strange for anyone used to the Western approach in Iraq i.e. massive air attacks and an overwhelming ratio of armed forces to fight the Iraqi army.  By contrast the Russian bombardment was tiny and doesn't seem to have damaged much infrastructure neither is their force anything close to twice the size of the Ukrainian army let alone 3 or 4 times the size.  They have however invaded on at least three fronts  which will have divided the Ukrainian response.  It looks like they will have a massive insurgency on their hands if and when they 'win' given that the population is by and large anti Russian.  

Russian Arrogance, they think they are better than they are. 

We spent the entire Cold War believing they were advanced, to find out they were nowhere near what we believed they were. 

Ordinary Russians don’t want to fight, that’s evident by some of the surrenders and they have underestimated the response of Ukrainians, who know what hardship Is. 

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36 minutes ago, Fedster said:

What is the overall objective for Putin? Is it to overthrow the Ukrainian Government and install puppet regime?

Once he has taken control of Ukraine is he planning to attack neighbouring countries?

 

Looking at how he has attacked, I suspect it’s to create a land bridge and prevent access to Russia by the Sea of Azov. 
 

He can also build a buffer between nato and Russia, knowing if he doesn’t then Nato will creep closer. 
 

He has proven his point:

Russia can attack if they want

Nato is a toothless tiger

Western Governments are scared of Russia

America is weak

Europe relies on Russian gas and oil

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fedster said:

What is the overall objective for Putin? Is it to overthrow the Ukrainian Government and install puppet regime?

Once he has taken control of Ukraine is he planning to attack neighbouring countries?

 

I've had this discussion with a few people, bar some strange ideology of Russian expansionism (something he has apparently eluded to) I can't understand the end game. 

I'm going to sound awful here but bare with me, I hope the inevitable Russian victory is swift for the sake of the Ukranian people, the quicker it comes the less infrastructure damage and loss of life there is going to be. That being said if Russia ends up occupying Ukraine they'll be looking at the same issues the in the west faced in Afghanistan (as did the Soviets aswell in the 80s) namely insurgent hit and run fighting, looooonnng drawn out occupation against a well equipped underground resistance. 

Now that to me doesn't at all sound appealing, so what are his options? Any puppet government he puts in place will face the same insurgency a Russian occupying force faces... 

He is literally exhibiting bond villain levels of insanity at the moment - no one can seem to grasp what the ultimate outcome will be... 

Edited by Radman
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