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jimmyriddle

Seizure of imitation firearm from private dwelling

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jimmyriddle

I was watching Road Police Wars Interceptors 999 or whatever it was the other day and they went to a job of an imitation firearm (handgun).

 

Someone had called saying they'd seen it in a living room of a house. Not being pointed, not outside, nothing else. Just literally on a table.

 

They find it's a 100% legal air pistol, nothing to suggest stolen, used or going to be used in crime, taken outside, anything... Yet it's still seized and the dude isn't arrested and it was NFA.

 

Why did they seize a lawfully held item if there were no grounds?

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Chief Cheetah

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SD
On 28/04/2018 at 03:47, jimmyriddle said:

 

I was watching Road Police Wars Interceptors 999 or whatever it was the other day and they went to a job of an imitation firearm (handgun).

 

Someone had called saying they'd seen it in a living room of a house. Not being pointed, not outside, nothing else. Just literally on a table.

 

They find it's a 100% legal air pistol, nothing to suggest stolen, used or going to be used in crime, taken outside, anything... Yet it's still seized and the dude isn't arrested and it was NFA.

 

Why did they seize a lawfully held item if there were no grounds?

 

They couldn’t have seized it lawfully. They could however give advice and offer to dispose of the item to prevent further calls.

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ParochialYokal

I didn’t see the episode but they could have seized it under a common law power to prevent crime (e.g. if the occupants were intoxicated they could have feared negligent discharge).

The lawful owner would have the right to get the item back in most circumstances.

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mla
I didn’t see the episode but they could have seized it under a common law power to prevent crime (e.g. if the occupants were intoxicated they could have feared negligent discharge).

The lawful owner would have the right to get the item back in most circumstances.
Do you have a citation to back this up or are you relying on nulla poena sine lege?

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BlueBob

They probably used the Ways & Means Act under the'Video recording, lets do something" clause.  

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Chaos

Lawfully on the premises? Section 19 PACE to seize anything relevant to what they are investergating to stop it being CLAD.

There could be offences of it being a too powerful air weapon... However does this have to be in a public place ?...

I guess they don't want to be on TV not doing anything and give the impression that imitation firearms are ok to possess, even in your own home.

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Mac7

No offences have been committed, suspected of being committed or disclosed therefore no power to seize. They may be lawfully on premises but if you haven’t got a power to seize.....then you can’t seize it.

Seizing it to prevent something that may or may not happen sometime in the future isn’t justification to take it.

Sometimes, you have to walk away. Cops get fixated that because they’ve been called they have to do something, or there has to be an outcome. That’s not always the case.

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junior_7178

Did you actually see the cops tell the owner "this is seized"? Or did they just say to the camera "we are going to sieze this"? Its quite possible that on request, the owner volunteered it to the officers but they edited that bit out?

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Funkywingnut
Posted (edited)
On 01/05/2018 at 20:33, Chaos said:

Lawfully on the premises? Section 19 PACE to seize anything relevant to what they are investergating to stop it being CLAD.

There could be offences of it being a too powerful air weapon... However does this have to be in a public place ?...

 

It doesn’t have to be in a public place if it is overpowered.  Legally held Firearms must to surrendered to the police on request for inspection, but I don’t believe such a requirement exists for air weapons.

Edited by Funkywingnut

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Beaker

They probably just talked the person in to it. As far as I'm aware there isn't any requirement to surrender a legal airgun, and as they're not licenced you can't have a certificate revoked.

 

The only thing I can think is if there are aggravating factors is to prevent a BoP, but by the sound of it that wouldn't apply here.

 

 

 

 

 

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jimmyriddle

As a few people have suggested, they may have "offered" to seize it (or more to the point just take it away) and the homeowner may have said yes.

This in itself is also dodgy. Remember how PACE says there's no such thing as a voluntary search and there has to be a power attached in order to do it? You'd think the same rules apply here (i appreciate they don't). People being coerced or intimidated by the Police into handing stuff over because they can't legally seize it but are implying it's "in their best interests to" etc. Same reasons as no voluntary searches. Stuff needs to be totally clear cut and legally done, or not at all. The grey areas cause issues

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SimonT

Had something like this the other day. Landlord comes across a possible firearm in tenants room, calls us and takes it to his office. 

We go, maybe it is a firearm, but we haven't exactly come across it in a legitimate fashion. But it might be a gun, we can't leave it where it is. We have to take it, but landlord didn't have any authority to remove it from the room, he has given it to us, so we can hardly get a warrant to get it, as we have it. 

So we take it and put it for examination purposes and hope its not a gun, because its going to be legally interesting if it is.  

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Sceptre
52 minutes ago, SimonT said:

Had something like this the other day. Landlord comes across a possible firearm in tenants room, calls us and takes it to his office. 

We go, maybe it is a firearm, but we haven't exactly come across it in a legitimate fashion. But it might be a gun, we can't leave it where it is. We have to take it, but landlord didn't have any authority to remove it from the room, he has given it to us, so we can hardly get a warrant to get it, as we have it. 

So we take it and put it for examination purposes and hope its not a gun, because its going to be legally interesting if it is.  

I don't think it would be that problematic, the powers under S47 Firearms Act don't apply but you were in the landlord's office lawfully so could seize and retain it under S19 as you can easily believe if it is real it will be evidence of an offence. The tenant may have some grievances against the landlord for entering his room in breach of the tenancy agreement and for conversion of his property but civil torts aren't anything to do with us and don't make the evidence unfair. 

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Mac7

I’ve had a similar scenario with drugs whereby a member of staff entered a bedsit on safety grounds and found a large amount of class A. He/she removed the drugs and called police, who promptly attended and seized the items. No issues when it came to court and suspects were convicted.

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