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How do officers feel about enforcing covid regulations?


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Dave SYP
1 hour ago, Equin0x said:

I agree. But I can see why people would lose respect for the police if you're quick to punish them yet allow politicians to break the same laws. How highly would you respect an oppo who fined a random person for breaking the rules then let his mate break them without so much as a warning?

 

As has been quite rightly said by Father Jack, the police don’t punish, that is a court’s jurisdiction. I wouldn’t judge an organisation because of the action or inaction of an individual. Your post gives me the impression that you might have had a more personal experience that may have clouded your judgement?

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It reads that you are like  some others who have arbitrarily decided that YOU (Others) think that the control measures are no longer relevant, not because the risks and rules have actually gone but me

That’s a concept I’ve listened to for decades. ‘One rule for them and another for the rest of us’ doesn’t mean that you should become lawless and a law breaker because a prominent politician wasn’t wh

Different country, but here goes... We have not enforced our (similar - masks, social distancing, capacity etc.) COVID restrictions in any meaningful way, beyond providing occasional muscle for o

Zulu 22

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9484019/Huge-crowd-maskless-travellers-outside-Harrods-weekend-shops-reopening.html

It is actions of these "Woke" idiots who will put us back to square one.  From the pictures they all appear to be under the age of 30.  It their I.Q.'s were added together they might not reach double figures.

 

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Dave SYP
16 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9484019/Huge-crowd-maskless-travellers-outside-Harrods-weekend-shops-reopening.html

It is actions of these "Woke" idiots who will put us back to square one.  From the pictures they all appear to be under the age of 30.  It their I.Q.'s were added together they might not reach double figures.

 

There were similar scenes outside Primark. I counted 420 legs and 26 teeth! 😂

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BizzieBee
11 minutes ago, Dave SYP said:

As has been quite rightly said by Father Jack, the police don’t punish, that is a court’s jurisdiction.

Not entirely correct. Whilst a person has the option to go NG, or elect to have the Court hear the case, it’s disingenuous to suggest that the Court make decisions on minor punitive outcomes  - particularly where penalty notices are issued, as in the case in point. Minor summary offences and out of court disposals are very much in the hands of Police decision making. To suggest otherwise is just point scoring and semantics. 

I’m not sure where @Equin0x is going with the “allow politicians to break some laws”, but he/she does have a point with the loss of respect. Also the point about double standards. However, again, I don’t quite get the point of “respect an oppo” for making that decision, nor “let his mate break them”. There are different interpretations of the law. Always has been, always will be. As we know, the law isn’t always black & white. The actions taken by others can’t always be accounted for singularly. 

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Equin0x
29 minutes ago, Dave SYP said:

As has been quite rightly said by Father Jack, the police don’t punish, that is a court’s jurisdiction. I wouldn’t judge an organisation because of the action or inaction of an individual. Your post gives me the impression that you might have had a more personal experience that may have clouded your judgement?

No, but I was really disappointed in the way police handled the Barnard Castle thing. Doesn't seem right that certain people are above the law.

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Equin0x
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BizzieBee said:

Not entirely correct. Whilst a person has the option to go NG, or elect to have the Court hear the case, it’s disingenuous to suggest that the Court make decisions on minor punitive outcomes  - particularly where penalty notices are issued, as in the case in point. Minor summary offences and out of court disposals are very much in the hands of Police decision making. To suggest otherwise is just point scoring and semantics. 

I’m not sure where @Equin0x is going with the “allow politicians to break some laws”, but he/she does have a point with the loss of respect. Also the point about double standards. However, again, I don’t quite get the point of “respect an oppo” for making that decision, nor “let his mate break them”. There are different interpretations of the law. Always has been, always will be. As we know, the law isn’t always black & white. The actions taken by others can’t always be accounted for singularly. 

What I mean is that if you want people to respect you, you have to earn that respect by demonstrating professionalism. Fining the common man for breaking the law while letting the rich and powerful break it (the eye test at Barnard Castle) isn't professional at all, and I admit I really don't have much respect for the way that was handled.

Edited by Equin0x
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BizzieBee
2 minutes ago, Equin0x said:

Doesn't seem right that certain people are above the law.

I don’t think this was the case at all. Unfortunately, ‘the law’ being so vast, open to interpretation, and discretion means that can’t always be applied equally. 

Clearly, there is a public interest issue in the point you raise. The whole ‘Cummingsgate’ was borne from incredibly poorly applied law from start to finish. No one should have been ‘punished’ based on the legislation. Even Cummings himself. Insult to injury is that he was influential to the PR around it. From start to finish, the Coronavirus legislation has been utterly, utterly flawed. Tickets have been cancelled in troves. The consequences have, yet again, fallen at the feet of Police. 

I have vehemently been against issuing tickets for Covid related issues. However, colleagues of mine have been dishing them out like smarties at a Brownie Disco. Does this make them bad police officers? No. Does it make me better than them? No. Does it mean there’s an issue with the Legislation and how it’s applied. Absollllllutely!!! 

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Zulu 22
36 minutes ago, Equin0x said:

No, but I was really disappointed in the way police handled the Barnard Castle thing. Doesn't seem right that certain people are above the law.

That case was thoroughly investigated and it was found that Cummings had not committed any offence although he did show poor judgement for which he publicly apologised.

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Father Jack
52 minutes ago, BizzieBee said:

Not entirely correct. Whilst a person has the option to go NG, or elect to have the Court hear the case, it’s disingenuous to suggest that the Court make decisions on minor punitive outcomes  - particularly where penalty notices are issued, as in the case in point. Minor summary offences and out of court disposals are very much in the hands of Police decision making. To suggest otherwise is just point scoring and semantics. 

No, the onus is on the individual to accept the FPN. By doing so they are essentially pleading guilty to the offence at the time, accepting the financial penalty, and side stepping the usual court process.

No one is obliged to accept an FPN, even for a minor summary offence. As you say, they can elect to have the court hear the case. Even if it may not seem worth the effort of doing so.

Edited by Father Jack
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BizzieBee
2 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

it was found that Cummings had not committed any offence although he did show poor judgement for which he publicly apologised.

Aside from his hilarious explanation about his own actions, I think that kind of sums up the entire point 😂.
 

2 hours ago, Father Jack said:

the onus is on the individual to accept the FPN. By doing so they are essentially pleading guilty to the offence at the time

I don’t recall anyone saying anything different, only about Police not imposing punishments. Besides, ‘accepting’ a FPN as it’s an easier process is a whole different kettle of fish that could have reems of paper used in discussion. 

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SD
17 hours ago, Equin0x said:

No, but I was really disappointed in the way police handled the Barnard Castle thing. Doesn't seem right that certain people are above the law.

Do you know how many other people were caught breaching covid law ans got away with it?

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Father Jack
15 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

I don’t recall anyone saying anything different, only about Police not imposing punishments. Besides, ‘accepting’ a FPN as it’s an easier process is a whole different kettle of fish that could have reems of paper used in discussion.

Conceding that the police can deal with some very minor summary offences with out of court disposals (in limited circumstances), is not the same as the police punishing people.

The narrative that the police punish people is frankly lazy and disingenuous. An excuse spouted by the ignorant, or the criminal; parroted by sections of the media for their own nefarious reasons.

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Zulu 22
27 minutes ago, BizzieBee said:

That link just gives the statistics for the number of penalties and a load of other data. Nowhere does it imply the the Police are punishing people. They are just enforcing the legislation and Regulations as written.  People get a "Fixed Penalty Ticket" for breaking those rules.

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BizzieBee
6 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

They are just enforcing the legislation and Regulations as written.

They are not, which leads to multiple examples of this: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55594244.amp

Penalty notices issued for situations and circumstance not within the Legislation. It’s not entirely their fault as they are blindly led by ‘leaders’ who also don’t know how to apply the law where the coronavirus laws are very much subjective. As acknowledged: http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9024/CBP-9024.pdf

Legislation isn’t written by Police, but the enforcement action is. On these occasions, by way of Penalty notices. Penalty notice is a punishment - per @Equin0x post above. 

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