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How do officers feel about enforcing covid regulations?


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Equin0x

I don't mean stuff like raves where people are blatantly taking the **** but for sake of argument stuff like two friends from separate households meeting on a park bench for coffee when that wasn't allowed. From my point of view there is something really alarming about such a normal thing being illegal, and that for most of this year you've needed a formal reasonable excuse in law just to leave your house. Feels dystopian. Restrictions on our freedom that are utterly unprecedented. On the other hand, we are in a pandemic and those restrictions do have a clear effect in bringing cases down to more manageable levels. Maybe desparate times need desparate measures? How do you feel enforcing the regulations?

Where I live compliance is basically gone. I'd say it was good until recently but think after the 1 year anniversary of lockdown something happened and a critical mass of people just said right that's enough. Groups from different households were meeting up before it was allowed, social distancing "what's that?", and mask wearing in shops isn't even as high as 50-50 now including staff based on my (completely anecdotal and not scientific fair enough) observations.

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It reads that you are like  some others who have arbitrarily decided that YOU (Others) think that the control measures are no longer relevant, not because the risks and rules have actually gone but me

That’s a concept I’ve listened to for decades. ‘One rule for them and another for the rest of us’ doesn’t mean that you should become lawless and a law breaker because a prominent politician wasn’t wh

Different country, but here goes... We have not enforced our (similar - masks, social distancing, capacity etc.) COVID restrictions in any meaningful way, beyond providing occasional muscle for o

BlueBob

It reads that you are like  some others who have arbitrarily decided that YOU (Others) think that the control measures are no longer relevant, not because the risks and rules have actually gone but merely because a period of time has passed and you've got bored with the constraints.  

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Zulu 22

Having retired enforcing the regulations does not affect me, but I do abide by them.  If I was still serving then I would have no hesitation in enforcing those regulations. That is what we do.  I have seen people ignoring the rules and they come over as selfish and stupid.  Many seem to think that they are immune and can ignore any regulation which is brought in for the safety of all the inhabitants. 

Just wondering if you know anyone who has died of Covid. Personally I have known four and they were all fairly close. One a neighbour, one a close friend, and two, fairly recently retired, Police Officers. I was asked to attend one funeral and deliver a Eulogy. With two of the others I attended outside the Crematorium and assisted in lining the approach as a mark of respect. With the third, a retired officer who had moved to North Yorkshire, his funeral was streamed on line so I was able to pay my last respects in that way.

I must say that I cannot understand the mentality, and crass stupidity of those who are putting themselves and others in potential danger.  Having had my Astra Zenecca jabs I should be safe from infection but that does not stop me from being a potential carrier to infect others.

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Equin0x
12 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Having retired enforcing the regulations does not affect me, but I do abide by them.  If I was still serving then I would have no hesitation in enforcing those regulations. That is what we do.  I have seen people ignoring the rules and they come over as selfish and stupid.  Many seem to think that they are immune and can ignore any regulation which is brought in for the safety of all the inhabitants. 

Just wondering if you know anyone who has died of Covid. Personally I have known four and they were all fairly close. One a neighbour, one a close friend, and two, fairly recently retired, Police Officers. I was asked to attend one funeral and deliver a Eulogy. With two of the others I attended outside the Crematorium and assisted in lining the approach as a mark of respect. With the third, a retired officer who had moved to North Yorkshire, his funeral was streamed on line so I was able to pay my last respects in that way.

I must say that I cannot understand the mentality, and crass stupidity of those who are putting themselves and others in potential danger.  Having had my Astra Zenecca jabs I should be safe from infection but that does not stop me from being a potential carrier to infect others.

Sorry to hear that, and yes good that it was streamed so you could pay your respects that way. I personally haven't known anyone who died of covid, thank goodness. My opposition to restrictions is that while I do care about people and really don't want them to die from covid, I also don't want us to be living like this forever. I personally don't think we can eradicate it so sooner or later we have to decide on a balance. What level of risk is acceptable, how many deaths a year from covid would be an acceptable number that we can tolerate. That may sound quite brutal to you, especially as someone who has lost people to this and I'm sorry if it offends, but if my suspicions are correct and we can't fully eradicate the virus it's a decision that will need to be made at some point. My view is that once the vulnerable are vaccinated, we should be removal pretty much all restrictions.  As long as the NHS isn't at risk of being overwhelmed, there is no reason why we can't just treat this similar to the flu.

Having lost people you know, it must be frustrating for you to see people breaking the rules and I do sympathize. I'd say that on the whole though the public have actually done quite well to endure this for so long. But it is really hard, we need normality to look forward to, and the mental health problems that are building up as a result of lockdown are reaching concerning levels.

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DodgeRam

I gave out a £10k fine last year to a party organiser who had about 80 people packed into am average 3 bed semi for a party. The ticket was rejected and I was instructed to re-issue a ticket for a different, lesser offence which would carry a £200 fine. This was despite the points to prove for the original offence being met and indeed recorded on multiple officers BWV. 

I don't think it was ethical to instruct me to reissue the ticket for a lesser offence. So they got away with it as the police management didn't have the backbone to follow through with the ticket.

I haven't enforced any other Covid offences since then. What's the point? I've tried to educate people instead.

 

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Zulu 22

EquinOx any responsible person would follow the Science instead of putting their head into the sand.  The majority of people have responded well. It is the small minority and they are the ones who believe that nothing will happen to them, well it does, and they spread it to others. 

I find it difficult to see just what goes through the minds of some people, who cannot see the dangers and feel it is beneath them to endure a little hardship for any length of time.  What do they think that their  grand parents and great grand parents went through between 1939 and 1945. That was not led by the Science, they did not have any idea when they would emerge from the long tunnel of despair into the light. If the present generation had been around in 1939 I suspect that we would all be speaking German now. We all owe our freedom to that generation who endured much more than this present day one.

They put their faith in the Government of the day and Winston Churchill and he was thanked by being ousted in the General Election. The man responsible for guiding them through to victory and freedom must have felt gutted for his devotion to duty.  

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Zulu 22
29 minutes ago, DodgeRam said:

I gave out a £10k fine last year to a party organiser who had about 80 people packed into am average 3 bed semi for a party. The ticket was rejected and I was instructed to re-issue a ticket for a different, lesser offence which would carry a £200 fine. This was despite the points to prove for the original offence being met and indeed recorded on multiple officers BWV. 

I don't think it was ethical to instruct me to reissue the ticket for a lesser offence. So they got away with it as the police management didn't have the backbone to follow through with the ticket.

I haven't enforced any other Covid offences since then. What's the point? I've tried to educate people instead.

Your actions were betrayed by a weak and pathetic leadership who appeared to have given you no backing whatsoever. They should have stood up to the mark and made sure that the legislation that you enforced was carried through to the collection of the full fine.  That is the problem with Policing today, spineless leadership, more interested in being seen as politically correct and satisfying other Politicians and PCC's.

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Equin0x
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Your actions were betrayed by a weak and pathetic leadership who appeared to have given you no backing whatsoever. They should have stood up to the mark and made sure that the legislation that you enforced was carried through to the collection of the full fine.  That is the problem with Policing today, spineless leadership, more interested in being seen as politically correct and satisfying other Politicians and PCC's.

Maybe you should come out of retirement to show them all how it should be done 😀

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BizzieBee
6 hours ago, Equin0x said:

How do you feel enforcing the regulations?

I don’t. Because they can’t be enforced in your scenario. 

The Legislation is basically: “Thou shalt not break bread on a Monday with the exception for it being the twelfth Monday of the second quarter, provided that the preceding Sunday is a full moon, or within the 11th Week of the year. This rule shall only apply on the eve of a red sky, except for if the red sky follows a lunar eclipse whereby cod & chips.”

1 hour ago, DodgeRam said:

The ticket was rejected and I was instructed to re-issue a ticket for a different, lesser offence

Why was that? 
 

1 hour ago, DodgeRam said:

So they got away with it as the police management didn't have the backbone to follow through with the ticket.

Why not? Was this after the ACPO/NPCC (or whatever those useless wonders are called these days) decided they wanted to enforce the £10k one, then changed their minds due to issues with the Legislation, then changed their minds again without it being legally challenged? They should’ve stuck to their guns originally and pushed the point that they won’t be enforcing it. 

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Dave SYP
10 hours ago, Equin0x said:

Maybe you should come out of retirement to show them all how it should be done 😀

There’s a few on here (me included) who wouldn’t come out of retirement to do the job for all the tea in China !  I wouldn’t feel safe with both arms tied behind my back, having to struggle to try and remove the daggers between my shoulders 🙄

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Dave SYP

The policing of the restrictions is a monumental cock up of the first order. For a start, there aren’t enough police officers to adequately police the volume of breaches. Our government have decided that the potential for mass civil disobedience will be policed by the public themselves.  Woolly decision making by so-called leaders in parliament and the police will just add to the frustration that all law abiding citizens who are following the regulations feel.

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DodgeRam
16 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

I don’t. Because they can’t be enforced in your scenario. 

The Legislation is basically: “Thou shalt not break bread on a Monday with the exception for it being the twelfth Monday of the second quarter, provided that the preceding Sunday is a full moon, or within the 11th Week of the year. This rule shall only apply on the eve of a red sky, except for if the red sky follows a lunar eclipse whereby cod & chips.”

Why was that? 
 

Why not? Was this after the ACPO/NPCC (or whatever those useless wonders are called these days) decided they wanted to enforce the £10k one, then changed their minds due to issues with the Legislation, then changed their minds again without it being legally challenged? They should’ve stuck to their guns originally and pushed the point that they won’t be enforcing it. 

When I issued the fine the legislation didn't feature anything in relation to recorded music. When the ticket was rejected they stated that exceptionally loud music wasn't present at the house, so points to prove hadn't been met. It was a shambles.

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Reasonable Man
18 hours ago, DodgeRam said:

I gave out a £10k fine last year to a party organiser who had about 80 people packed into am average 3 bed semi for a party. The ticket was rejected and I was instructed to re-issue a ticket for a different, lesser offence which would carry a £200 fine. This was despite the points to prove for the original offence being met and indeed recorded on multiple officers BWV. 

I don't think it was ethical to instruct me to reissue the ticket for a lesser offence. So they got away with it as the police management didn't have the backbone to follow through with the ticket.

I haven't enforced any other Covid offences since then. What's the point? I've tried to educate people instead.

 

The ‘tickets’ go to ACRO where it is decided whether to issue a penalty notice or not. Sounds like those with the legal knowledge made the decision that the wrong offence had been used. It was returned to the force so the suspect could be reported for the correct offence. 
So it was you who decided to let the offender get away with it.
What does claiming that ‘police management’ (whoever that may be) didn’t have the backbone to follow through with your (incorrect) decision say about the ‘disciplined service’? Rather it shows an all too typical ‘I know better than you’ attitude despite the decision makers having the specialist knowledge. 

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stewie_griffin

Different country, but here goes...

We have not enforced our (similar - masks, social distancing, capacity etc.) COVID restrictions in any meaningful way, beyond providing occasional muscle for our provincial health teams.

Our management, from what I can gather, have been very reluctant to put their officers at risk enforcing regulations. I suspect they looked at the legislation (rushed, complicated and basically unenforceable, just like the UK) and thought, 'No way are we having anything to do with that.'

Broadly speaking, the police officers themselves have been very reluctant to do any actual enforcement. This is partly because of direction from on high, but also because of a large amount of scepticism amongst the officers themselves. Any 'COVID calls' are pushed to the back of the queue and by the time anyone gets to them, everyone has long-gone.

Overall, results have been positive-ish: our reputation hasn't been tarnished (unlike the UK) and COVID death/ infection rates unchanged.

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BizzieBee
42 minutes ago, stewie_griffin said:

Different country, but here goes...

 

43 minutes ago, stewie_griffin said:

I suspect they looked at the legislation (rushed, complicated and basically unenforceable, just like the UK) and thought, 'No way are we having anything to do with that.'


Once upon a time, far far away, other countries used to look to the U.K. for guidance on good policing practice. 

Glad to see other countries have now got their own minds and keeping up standards whilst others, now us, are looking at other countries thinking ‘where did we go so wrong?’

...QPMs. Teas. Medals...

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