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UK policing 2020 - end aim?


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Wilts20

As of 2020, for most constables for UK police forces (from what I understand) the following apply:

- no accommodation provided (less serving officers from pre-late 90s) i.e. commuting officers

- academic degree required, or certain points to allow a degree study, for two or three years (whilst serving)

- pension age getting higher (MDP?)

- police canteens largely gone, police leisure facilities largely non-existent?

This is not intended to be a "modern police" bashing thread, or and "old and bold" reminiscing (though I've no objection to stories!), but more to try and understand the aim behind the current conditions. In a time when the police service faces such problems (challenges) and dangers, there seems to be little further 'cushioning' if you like, to support [new?] people into the role.

With these new intakes, it must be difficult enough to learn how to police, without the need to; study for a degree/convert yours, commute/rent/mortgage, little official social & leisure places, etc. I'd have thought things like accommodation provided to you on your first posting, for say, three years or so (during probation) when you cna be posted anywhere in the county/city would be welcome. Does the degree study not take up what little time officers have to themselves, or police work time they have?

Anyone care to shed light? What's the big NPCC/HO plan here?

Cheers.

 

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All toge All together now "BUT WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY!"

It is another nail in the coffin to destroy Policing and show the4 serving officers just, how little they are valued.  Always in Policing you have a situation of being hands on and, like it or not, th

It's useful for the majority of the time which isn't about using force however, or at least the transferrable ability to learn, research, retain and apply information is. The best cops are the ones wh

BlueBob

You reason that for years and years, police had shouted at how it is a professional role etc.  For many professional roles,holding a higher education qualification such a a degree has always been a prerequisite.  ( the usual array of doctors, accountants, legal eagles etc).   Middle ranks for years have been doing degrees in mid-service and whilst working, supposedly to support them in future promotions.
On reflection, if policing is seen to be a profession then this is the price.

as for lack of serviced canteens etc - no different to so many other workplaces. Accepting a place to eat as a legal requirement is just that - you provide your own food etc.

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Wilts20
34 minutes ago, BlueBob said:

You reason that for years and years, police had shouted at how it is a professional role etc.  For many professional roles,holding a higher education qualification such a a degree has always been a prerequisite.  ( the usual array of doctors, accountants, legal eagles etc).   Middle ranks for years have been doing degrees in mid-service and whilst working, supposedly to support them in future promotions.
On reflection, if policing is seen to be a profession then this is the price.

as for lack of serviced canteens etc - no different to so many other workplaces. Accepting a place to eat as a legal requirement is just that - you provide your own food etc.

Thanks. Good to know. 

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Zulu 22

It is another nail in the coffin to destroy Policing and show the4 serving officers just, how little they are valued.  Always in Policing you have a situation of being hands on and, like it or not, the use of force. A degree does not help in those circumstances.

Yes a good educational standard is necessary, but joining the service, going through the training and the experience should qualify someone for a degree in Policing. At the moment you can go through 30 years of Policing, deal with just about everything, receive in job qualifications, Advanced Driving, CID Course etc,etc. and leave the Police with no Qualification at all. 

 

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BlueBob
21 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

It is another nail in the coffin to destroy Policing and show the4 serving officers just, how little they are valued.  Always in Policing you have a situation of being hands on and, like it or not, the use of force. A degree does not help in those circumstances.

Yes a good educational standard is necessary, but joining the service, going through the training and the experience should qualify someone for a degree in Policing. At the moment you can go through 30 years of Policing, deal with just about everything, receive in job qualifications, Advanced Driving, CID Course etc,etc. and leave the Police with no Qualification at all. 

 

Appreciate the comments about "hands on' but many of those actions can be within a degree course, after all its within the officer basic training!  It does not undermine those already serving as long as it is not a retrospective requirement and there is a cut off date where the officer (all ranks) hold their skills in the same way lots of other quals have 'grandfathers right' - rather like those categories on a driving licence as they have changed.  

Let's not forget that many of the job's in-house courses have a limited lifespan and often not an accepted qual in their own right to the outside world.  Using the driving example, most (probably now all) police driver trainers must have the external ADI qualification rather than the good old days when someone went to the driving school and taught you how to drive the police way.  Even then, you see adverts for ex-job with an advanced ticket and usually its limited to 3-5 yrs since leaving or last used.  So its not an enduring qual - I think similar applies to lots of the other police based courses and thats even within the job at times I would expect. 

So the question is, for those looking to join, why not have an expectation that they have a significant appreciation / knowledge of policing before joining in the same way other professions make tat expectation and they also often include some form of hands-on practical role - so certainly thats part of the barrister / solicitor type roles, fairly sure the nursing quals also have hands on elements.  The one benefit is that if the degree holder decides to leave the police after 5-10 yrs, they still have a degree (any degree) which is what many employers like to see.
I suppose my issue is that it will probably be an ineffective, irrelevant package of a degree cobbled together.
 

 

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Sceptre
4 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

It is another nail in the coffin to destroy Policing and show the4 serving officers just, how little they are valued.  Always in Policing you have a situation of being hands on and, like it or not, the use of force. A degree does not help in those circumstances.

It's useful for the majority of the time which isn't about using force however, or at least the transferrable ability to learn, research, retain and apply information is. The best cops are the ones who are good with policy and legislation and are good at solving problems intelligently, and if those people aren't the best at using force than that's much easier to train than recruiting the other way around. I think the current degree apprenticeship strikes a good balance at giving people a worthwhile qualification through realistic on-the-job training with some control over the syllabus, and it's a straw man to say that because these people will be graduates they must be hopeless in a fight.

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Wilts20
7 hours ago, BlueBob said:

The one benefit is that if the degree holder decides to leave the police after 5-10 yrs, they still have a degree (any degree) which is what many employers like to see.

Is there not a problem then in people leaving, after only such a short time? If they are only going to give 5-10 yrs service, surely that is a waste for public and the force, when you could have someone for 30 years?

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Wilts20

It's interesting is it not? When I started my first proper job, the advert demanded a "degree" and yet I applied, was successful and even managed a sort of promotion within six months and then a rise in pay. I've now done that for three years, but I have only been able to because of my background and 'experience'. I think quals are a great way of demonstrating that experience, but not a good way to help people start something.

Get them in to the role, get 'em trained up and then they can sort of learn and work. If they want that learning to be at HE level, then fine, but otherwise, they could have lower levels, or just do the job and do it well.

At the moment the police service seems to demand a lot, just in the adverts and HO propaganda posters, but not give much back in the way of benefits.*

(*From an outsider's viewpoint).

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Beaker

All toge

3 hours ago, Sceptre said:

It's useful for the majority of the time which isn't about using force however, or at least the transferrable ability to learn, research, retain and apply information is. The best cops are the ones who are good with policy and legislation and are good at solving problems intelligently, and if those people aren't the best at using force than that's much easier to train than recruiting the other way around. I think the current degree apprenticeship strikes a good balance at giving people a worthwhile qualification through realistic on-the-job training with some control over the syllabus, and it's a straw man to say that because these people will be graduates they must be hopeless in a fight.

All together now "BUT WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT THAT WAY!"

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Zulu 22
3 hours ago, Sceptre said:

It's useful for the majority of the time which isn't about using force however, or at least the transferrable ability to learn, research, retain and apply information is. The best cops are the ones who are good with policy and legislation and are good at solving problems intelligently, and if those people aren't the best at using force than that's much easier to train than recruiting the other way around. I think the current degree apprenticeship strikes a good balance at giving people a worthwhile qualification through realistic on-the-job training with some control over the syllabus, and it's a straw man to say that because these people will be graduates they must be hopeless in a fight.

I have had many recruits who joined with degree's. Sadly too many of those were a waste of time, fortunately many were not. I can see the value of an officer joining and training leading to a Police Degree. At least they have some paper qualification when they leave.   It is alright for a person to have intelligence and be good at with policy and legislation and can solve problems intelligently.  That can work if you are dealing with an intelligent person but, sadly, we deal with too many people whose only discussion lays within their fists.  It is more than usual for them to hit anything which is any opposition to their actions.  I wish it were not so but, sadly, it is.

 

 

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BlueBob
3 hours ago, Wilts20 said:

Is there not a problem then in people leaving, after only such a short time? If they are only going to give 5-10 yrs service, surely that is a waste for public and the force, when you could have someone for 30 years?

Officers leave through natural attrition rates with or without a degree.  Where is the problem.  It’s not like a military contact for x years.  It’s better that they leave if they choose to do so than wear a uniform until,pension time , now that really is a waste.  

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On 02/09/2020 at 10:23, Zulu 22 said:

 

Yes a good educational standard is necessary, but joining the service, going through the training and the experience should qualify someone for a degree in Policing.

 

It does. I skipped straight to the last year of a degree solely based my police experience.

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Okay, let's clear up.some myths about degrees and Policing:

1) Having a degree does not mean you would be useless in a scrap or smashing in doors. Conversely, not having one does not mean you would be good at it

2) A degree can include hands on skills as well as theory. How do people think doctors get qualified? Just by reading a book?

3) the critical think required to pass a degree is the same kind of critical thinking which is missing from modern day Policing.

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BlueBob
8 hours ago, SD said:

O

3) the critical think required to pass a degree is the same kind of critical thinking which is missing from modern day Policing.

Sorry to cut your text, IMHO you cut to the chase with No3. Nicely phrased

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7 hours ago, BlueBob said:

Sorry to cut your text, IMHO you cut to the chase with No3. Nicely phrased

I'll take that as a compliment!

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