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Member of public 1

Evening standard.Met police chief ‘content’ with officers professionalism after boy, 12, handcuffed for playing with toy gun

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Member of public 1

A Met Police chief has defended his officers after they arrested a schoolboy playing with a toy gun, believing it to be real.  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boy-12-arrested-toy-gun-met-police-defence-a4508786.html No one can be sure if the gun was real or not the officers did the right think in my own opinion no matter what your age is.

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pcmode

Reading other reports there are headlines such as "bungling cops" etc. A member of the public reports someone with a gun, they respond to that report and seemingly quickly establish that it was a bb gun. What's the problem?!

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skydiver
1 hour ago, pcmode said:

Reading other reports there are headlines such as "bungling cops" etc. A member of the public reports someone with a gun, they respond to that report and seemingly quickly establish that it was a bb gun. What's the problem?!

That sadly doesn't make a good newspaper headline for the likes of the Daily Fail.

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Zulu 22
Posted (edited)

Youcannot afford to get it wrong on a call of possessing a firearm. At first sight you have little idea whether it is a BB gun or a genuine firearm. The mother is criticising the Police and, once again, claiming that it is Racial Profiling, how. The report came from a member of the public who had seen a Black Male through the window of a house with a firearm. How can that be Racial, he was a male and he was black. I dread to contemplate the outcome if the youth had been in the street at night and he had pointed the gun at an armed officer.

It is reported that the mother was a Housing Association Governance Officer. I would be surprised that she would allow her son to have an item that looked, at first sight, a firearm. and, that she was happy to let him retain it. That is not setting a very good example to her family and good parenting.

The Met say there was no misconduct and yet had seen fit to report the incident to the IOPC. 

Edited by Zulu 22

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ChristopherM

Statement from the family's lawyer:

Quote

Such is the dispassionate, almost robotic, tone of a Metropolitan Police statement made in response to a shocking incident last Friday night involving my client Alice Mina Agyepong and her young family; but sometimes ‘dispassionate’ can shade into ‘disingenuous’, for what that carefully crafted statement fails to make clear is that the “male” who was arrested on suspicion of possession of a firearm, was in fact Mina’s 12 year old son Kai…who had been doing nothing more than playing with his toy gun in the living room of his house. The disingenuous and defensive nature of the Police statement is further reflected in the choice of words used to later describe Kai – “the youth” and (inaccurately) “the teenager” – words which obviously tend to convey an impression that Kai was far older than 12, perhaps a young adult rather than, as he is, a child.

It seems that a passerby telephoned the Police after peering in through the living room of the family’s home and seeing Kai playing (alone) with his plastic toy gun. The rest of the family (Mina and her two daughters) were then awoken in terrifying circumstances as armed Police stormed the house, training their – very real – firearms on Mina and her children and forcing them to march outside with their hands up, where they were detained in full view of the neighbourhood whilst Mina’s house was, in her words, “ransacked” by the Police, who were doubtless hoping to find something – anything ? – that would justify such a gross and disproportionate invasion of the family’s home.

During this time, Kai, a Year 7 pupil at Maria Fidelis Catholic School was kept handcuffed in a Police vehicle before being eventually “de-arrested” when the Police established that they had terrorized the family for no purpose other than to arrest a child for playing with a toy in his own home…

Major questions will need to be answered by the Metropolitan Police as to how this everyday event escalated into an armed raid, during which deadly force could so easily and tragically have been unleashed upon Mina and her children. Even as it stands, with the physical force being ‘confined’ to the handcuffing of a 12 year old boy, the emotional and psychological impact cannot be underestimated. For a family to have the safety and sanctity of their home violated in such a way, is literally the stuff of nightmares.

And not least amongst the questions to be answered will be to what degree the Police response to the report they received was escalated because of the colour of Kai’s skin. Given the knowledge we already have in relation to disproportionate uses of force and Police powers generally upon black people, this is a very real concern

I have accepted instructions to act on behalf of Mina and Kai to assist with their Police complaint, and, in due course, to commence a claim for compensation against the Police. Mina also feels, quite rightly, that people need to know about this incident so that the full spotlight of  public scrutiny can be shone upon the Police. As a result, she has provided interviews to ITV, BBC and Channel 4 news.

As I have said before, media attention upon cases of suspected Police misconduct and wrongdoing is a crucial part of the power which civil society has to balance out the power of the Police, and to avert future cases of error and abuse. I am happy to be playing my part in this case, but so too is every responsible citizen who learns of the case and reflects upon it, and asks the questions which hold the Police to account.

https://iaingould.co.uk/blog/

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SimonT

Well, that is some very hard reaching. Eeaking out every possible wrong that they could from that incident and report. 

It must be so frustrating for the solicitors that the met used such robotic language, or what could also be determined as carefully worded, knowing it would be picked over by soneone, say a solicitor looking to sue. 

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Billy Blue Tac
51 minutes ago, ChristopherM said:

a claim for compensation

'nuff said.

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Zulu 22
18 minutes ago, Billy Blue Tac said:

'nuff said.

And, of course, we are back to the old Race card. Would the actions have been any different had the boy been white, I doubt it very much. Should anyone make a report that they had seen a male through a house window with a gun then it would have been the same response involving an Armed Response Unit. 

Who on here as seen a BB gun, they are very realistic. If one was on a table 10 feet away you would  know if it was real or not. The moment that you picked it up then it would be obvious. You do not give any person the chance to fire it to find out if it is genuine, that is how Police widows are made.

Also, there have been cases of a child or teenager in a house who has found a genuine gun which has left insecure by an illegal possessor. They do not remove the magazine and empty (clear) the breach of ammunition. Tragic accidents can happen and I would rather the officer's take the action they did than discover to someone's cost that the call was accurate.

Non Police personnel could even get confused by that.

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SD

They won't get a penny and they should've interviewed him for possible offences. How did an MoP know he was in possession of the replica gun? 

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POM0272

Who on the right mind would allow a 12 year old to “play” with anything that can fire projectiles which could cause serious harm? I’ve been shot in the leg by a BB gun in my younger and more vulnerable years by a friend with a plastic pellet, it was a joke, as you do when young and stupid. I can tell you it hurts - despite it not being the most powerful of firearms. A plastic pellet to the eye and you’re  losing your sight - 20 odd years ago apparently it was a regular teenage injury at the local A&E as I remember one of my mate’s mums who was a nurse telling me.
 

There’s a very good chance a 12 year old cannot foresee the danger these weapons pose and it is therefore their parents job to ensure they don’t harm themselves or others. Maybe by preventing access to them.

I’d hazard a guess the young chap never had good weapon handling training at a gun club. Perhaps a discussion with his adult mother about lessons being learned may be a better outcome then blaming those who responded to such a report and who’s intention was to safeguard all concerned.

A BB gun is not a toy. And never will be. And never should be in the hands of children.

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Jacob212
On 29/07/2020 at 00:58, SD said:

They won't get a penny and they should've interviewed him for possible offences. How did an MoP know he was in possession of the replica gun? 

What possible offences?

there wasn't any.

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SD
21 hours ago, PcJacob said:

What possible offences?

there wasn't any.

If you were a cop you would know what offences could've been committed. But I'm in a good mood so will start you off. S16a Firearms Act 1968, points to prove:

 

Replica FA - Tick!

Possession - Tick!

Intent - witness statement and interview

So you see we're 2/3rds of the way there and thats solely based on the news reports.

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Zulu 22

 

43 minutes ago, SD said:

If you were a cop you would know what offences could've been committed. But I'm in a good mood so will start you off. S16a Firearms Act 1968, points to prove:

Replica FA - Tick!

Possession - Tick!

Intent - witness statement and interview

So you see we're 2/3rds of the way there and thats solely based on the news reports.

Just, perhaps he is trying to impress with his lack of knowledge of Police procedure and basic Police Knowledge. After all anyone can go onto Google but you have to understand and at least have a grasp of the basics.

Edited by Zulu 22

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Reasonable Man
22 hours ago, PcJacob said:

What possible offences?

there wasn't any.

There were several. 

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Radman

I do often think we do ourselves no favours by sometimes not atleast proceeding with or investigating offences, it's often easier to just NFA it or not bother following it up.

I generally take the view if I've had to lay significant hands on someone or a persons behaviour is so belligerent that clearly the message isn't penetrating I'll follow it up usually with a community resolution even if it's just a byelaw breach. Too many cops though will allow people to get away with far too much which in my opinion leaves them open to complaints later on down the line.

Football policing is a great example of this, there is generally always one loud mouth leader within a group of men which will continually push the boundaries by being deliberately provocative - if left his little cohort will all start getting mouthy and things descend from there, if however you identify that one idiot, get his details and deal with them even if it's for just unacceptable behaviour community resolution it tends to be enough to put a stop to any later complaints or nonsense which may otherwise have come your way - I've found alot of football supporters to have the biggest victim complexes going yet are by far some of the worst offenders for public order on a match day travelling through the network.    

 

Edited by Radman

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