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Fedster

Panorama - Policing under pressure

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Fedster
Quote

With a surge of violent crime in London and recorded crime rising across the country, Panorama films with four police forces to ask if Britain's police can cope. The film reveals forces stretched to crisis point by eight years of austerity and a national shortage of detectives.

An exclusive analysis of police data for Panorama shows how fewer crimes are ending up with any suspect charged. Chief constables speak about the strains on their forces and how changes have had to be made not only in the way they prioritise crime, but how they investigate it too. But do the public accept these changes? Panorama hears from victims of crime and communities who fear Britain's streets are no longer being properly policed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b3q1rm

Police use call centres to avoid sending officers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44044537

 

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SimonT

I'm sure it will be interesting and disheartening. But I don't think it will make any difference, spin will spin it. We will carry on. 

Lucky I heard the other day that almost everyone in the UK has a job. So most of these problems will soon go. Obviously the definition of everyone and job and problems are subject to interpretation and spin, so none of its actually true, but that's hardly the point 

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David

Half an hour in. I wonder if Theresa May is watching this, or is she too snug in her ivory towers?

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Fedster

Depressing but not surprising, the bloke at the start saying he will take the law into his own hands next time youths attack his shop sums it all up. 

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Mac7
Depressing but not surprising, the bloke at the start saying he will take the law into his own hands next time youths attack his shop sums it all up. 


You can’t blame him can you?

No PCC gave an interview to camera and I thought it was interesting how no PC didn’t either. Was that because they weren’t allowed? I was willing for a Chief Officer to speak out against the government. Dee Collins was close and I was willing her on but she ended up giving a very corporate answer. Was any one else shouting at the comment from the HMIC and MP?

The programme tried to highlight how bad things are but honestly, it’s 10 times worse. Policing is absolutely on it knees.

The public want the police to protect them. The police want to protect the public but it is the government that are choking us and preventing us from doing it.
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SOP

The telephone investigation centre seems like  a sensible method of screening out crime. Too often I find myself investigating crime that I know that is never going to get solved, yet am unable to file it without completing the minimum standards of investigation . Which is typically a statement and CCTV enquires. It's the entire station getting these allocations,  local supervisors allocating it as the CMU have screened it in. 

It's a sad state of affair, but if more unsolvable crime is screened out we have more time to focus on those crimes that cause the most harm and protect the vulnerable.  

 

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Hyphen

Just finished watching this. On the whole it does talk about the pressures and cuts however it is such a missed opportunity. It’s left me really frustrated.

The examples used in the show were so poor when highlighting the cuts. They were all the types of investigation that would be seen as a priority and would have had a decent amount done on them, you could have 100 cops working the case but if there is no evidence then there is no evidence.

Things like mental health demand was brushed over as were mispers yet the murder in merseryside seemed to get a lot of airtime. What about looking at jobs that are delayed on a day to day basis, morale and mental health of cops? As has been mentioned what about hearing from cops actually working on the front line or in the crime management unit? 

I won’t even dignify the MP with any sort of discussion around her nonsensical input.

I can understand the frustration of the shopkeeper, however again it’s such a poor example as the crime was actually detected! Albeit with 3 x cautions.

As I say I’m left scratching my head a little after seeing this and it’s just such a shame that the real issues weren’t focused on more.

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Hyphen
3 minutes ago, SOP said:

The telephone investigation centre seems like  a sensible method of screening out crime. Too often I find myself investigating crime that I know that is never going to get solved, yet am unable to file it without completing the minimum standards of investigation . Which is typically a statement and CCTV enquires. It's the entire station getting these allocations,  local supervisors allocating it as the CMU have screened it in. 

It's a sad state of affair, but if more unsolvable crime is screened out we have more time to focus on those crimes that cause the most harm and protect the vulnerable.  

 

We have it in my force now, it’s really useful. I think if it was to be removed we would completely drown.

I can see the logic, why send cops out to something that has absolutely no way of it being detected? Like the young lady who lost/had her purse stolen possibly in a shop. What benefit would tying up a cop make to the case? 

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MerseyLLB
2 hours ago, Hyphen said:

We have it in my force now, it’s really useful. I think if it was to be removed we would completely drown.

I can see the logic, why send cops out to something that has absolutely no way of it being detected? Like the young lady who lost/had her purse stolen possibly in a shop. What benefit would tying up a cop make to the case? 

It's useful I agree. I'm currently dealing with crime investigation and allocation. I'm surprised how many are filed before they get to us - but still the sheer number of reports means that stuff is musing the filters.

Examples from just today of jobs which shouldn't really have even been sent to area for review and common sense would dictate they could be filed either evidential or public interest reasons: 

- assault by an 8 year on an 8 year old at school 

- public order offence where an adult verbally reprimanded a child and the child cried - parent reported as they didn't think another adult should shout at their child. No threats/abuse.

- public order offence where a child approaches the child victim in the street and says 'have you been talking about me?'. Child was upset when they got home and told parent. No threats abuse or insult.

- theft of a scooter whereby somebody was seen to pickup a scooter look at it and then put it back down.

- a burglary report whereby 2 people seen on camera going into the communal area of a disused part of a block of flats, look around the communal area and leave.

- a public order offence linked to a live report for a fight in the street already crimed as an assault and under investigation but public order offence raised because it was a bystander who called police 

- a domestic assault whereby during an argument the male party decides to leave the room and made contact with his wife as she was stood in the way. Not a push - just incidental contact.

- a camping knife ordered from a camping site intercepted in the post which has a locking blade.

They are the ones I am aware of which could have been filed at source.

The days of getting an mg11 and CCTV for every report before making a decision  are gone. There's simply no point in doing it, it's not proportionate and we don't have the officers to complete investigations for all of the offences. Well, we do, but then who goes to the 999 calls?!?

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Mac7
It's useful I agree. I'm currently dealing with crime investigation and allocation. I'm surprised how many are filed before they get to us - but still the sheer number of reports means that stuff is musing the filters.
Examples from just today of jobs which shouldn't really have even been sent to area for review and common sense would dictate they could be filed either evidential or public interest reasons: 
- assault by an 8 year on an 8 year old at school 
- public order offence where an adult verbally reprimanded a child and the child cried - parent reported as they didn't think another adult should shout at their child. No threats/abuse.
- public order offence where a child approaches the child victim in the street and says 'have you been talking about me?'. Child was upset when they got home and told parent. No threats abuse or insult.
- theft of a scooter whereby somebody was seen to pickup a scooter look at it and then put it back down.
- a burglary report whereby 2 people seen on camera going into the communal area of a disused part of a block of flats, look around the communal area and leave.
- a public order offence linked to a live report for a fight in the street already crimed as an assault and under investigation but public order offence raised because it was a bystander who called police 
- a domestic assault whereby during an argument the male party decides to leave the room and made contact with his wife as she was stood in the way. Not a push - just incidental contact.
- a camping knife ordered from a camping site intercepted in the post which has a locking blade.
They are the ones I am aware of which could have been filed at source.
The days of getting an mg11 and CCTV for every report before making a decision  are gone. There's simply no point in doing it, it's not proportionate and we don't have the officers to complete investigations for all of the offences. Well, we do, but then who goes to the 999 calls?!?



Were the examples you give recorded as crimes? If so there is a urgent training need I would suggest.
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Reasonable Man



Were the examples you give recorded as crimes? If so there is a urgent training need I would suggest.

Which ones don't you think are crimes to record and why?
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Zulu 22

The program should open the eyes of many, Public, and politicians.  The junior Home Office minister said it was the responsibility of the Chiefs, and the PCC's.   The responsibility is purely that of the Home Office and Policies and cuts. People did tell the P.M. at Federation Conference that you could not get more from less and, now the chickens are coming home to roost.

As far as Mersey's post goes, None of those incidents should be recorded as a crime. It would be deluded to believe that they should.  It appeasrs that callers are afraid to telling the caller that "This is not a Police matter"

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Hyphen
23 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

The program should open the eyes of many, Public, and politicians.  The junior Home Office minister said it was the responsibility of the Chiefs, and the PCC's.   The responsibility is purely that of the Home Office and Policies and cuts. People did tell the P.M. at Federation Conference that you could not get more from less and, now the chickens are coming home to roost.

As far as Mersey's post goes, None of those incidents should be recorded as a crime. It would be deluded to believe that they should.  It appeasrs that callers are afraid to telling the caller that "This is not a Police matter"

@Zulu 22 and @Mac7 I totally agree from a common sense point of view but the crime recording rules create so much extra work and end up with these sorts of things being recorded. Potentially they need looking at.

The chickens are coming home to roost but sadly the government are in denial. They even had the cheek to talk about protecting front line budgets and putting more money in to policing. I wonder if they actually think things are alright or if their heads are just in the sand.

I suppose the issue we have is the longer this lot are in government the longer this will go on, it would be a hugely embaressing failure for May and co to actually admit they got it so very wrong with policing and the justice system and have to then plough billions in to try and fix it. It would be political suicide. They are probably content to just let it rot until a new government or a new bunch of tories come in and have to try and clean up the mess.

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Zulu 22
1 hour ago, Hyphen said:

@Zulu 22 and @Mac7 I totally agree from a common sense point of view but the crime recording rules create so much extra work and end up with these sorts of things being recorded. Potentially they need looking at.

The chickens are coming home to roost but sadly the government are in denial. They even had the cheek to talk about protecting front line budgets and putting more money in to policing. I wonder if they actually think things are alright or if their heads are just in the sand.

I suppose the issue we have is the longer this lot are in government the longer this will go on, it would be a hugely embaressing failure for May and co to actually admit they got it so very wrong with policing and the justice system and have to then plough billions in to try and fix it. It would be political suicide. They are probably content to just let it rot until a new government or a new bunch of tories come in and have to try and clean up the mess.

The biggest problem and fear comes from the fact that no Labour Government has ever favoured the Police in any way with n o exception. It is depressing that the present Government have treated Policing in such a manner. May came in as Home Sectretary and she implemented a re[port that had been prepared by Cameron many years before. She was, in effect, his stool pigeon to bring in the reforms kicking Edmund Davies into touch to save money and Policing. 

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Mac7

It’s not just a common sense point of view, it’s a legal definition point of view. But I agree, from a very brief stint of working in a FCMU type set up, some call handlers don’t appear to have the confidence or training to decide what is a “police matter.”

It’s difficult to describe how bad things have become if you don’t work within the organisation. I like the fact that Panorama tried make a documentary but it was nowhere need as hard hitting as I thought it should be or ought to be to provoke ongoing public and political reaction. Because of that now it’s just another programme that was aired and sadly, forgotten about. That’s part due to the HMIC and the MP defending Tory policy but again the chiefs reluctance to be honest.

No wonder the public are dissatisfied with policing, but don’t blame the offices who are desperately trying to keep the wheel on day in day out. The buck stops with Theresa May.

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