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Fedster

Why security staff could soon be guarding police crime scenes

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Burnsy2023

What powers exactly will security staff have to prevent someone entering crime scenes?

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BlueBob

Hasn't this been done before?  with the right support and understanding, no reason why they could not supplement some scene preservation work

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Sceptre
1 hour ago, Burnsy2023 said:

What powers exactly will security staff have to prevent someone entering crime scenes?

Marginally less than a PCSO does, unless they're designated as part of the arrangements in which case they'll have exactly the same. But the point of many scenes isn't because there's a likely risk of interference (in which case a risk assessment would mean a constable ends up doing it) but simply for reasons of continuity. I believe some forces do it already.

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Hyphen

To be fair this should have been done years ago. It boggles the mind when we have a number of officers tied up standing or sitting in cars on a scene and no one to actually go to jobs.

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Techie1
37 minutes ago, Sceptre said:

Marginally less than a PCSO does, unless they're designated as part of the arrangements in which case they'll have exactly the same. But the point of many scenes isn't because there's a likely risk of interference (in which case a risk assessment would mean a constable ends up doing it) but simply for reasons of continuity. I believe some forces do it already.

When I first saw this headline, I did wonder about the vetting level required and the risk of interference. Maybe not so much of an issue then. 

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BlueBob
20 minutes ago, Techie1 said:

When I first saw this headline, I did wonder about the vetting level required and the risk of interference. Maybe not so much of an issue then. 

If you think about it, by the time a police decision has been made to outsource a given scene, then the company notified and then their staff attending and being deployed after appropriate briefing, the time lapse is such that it will still mean several hrs for police but as above, its the long term scene holding they could easily cover- on the limits /borders so not necessarily pivotal evidential positions.  

Just a thought - There is a well known and well circulated video showing a senior officer at a large RTC scene picking bits up and throwing them to the side of a road, so police holding a scene doesn't always mean its evidentially secure!!!

Edited by BlueBob
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Funkywingnut
4 hours ago, Burnsy2023 said:

What powers exactly will security staff have to prevent someone entering crime scenes?

What powers do they need? Anyone an guard a scene, works fine elsewhere.

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Funkywingnut

No issue with this idea so long as police jobs are not cut. 

Its a waste of a professional Officer to be sat on a cordon for hours on end. 

That said a police presence should still be maintained in all but volume crime.  

Edited by Funkywingnut

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J10

Why spend £32k+ PA (in the Met at least) to have someone with all the magic powers of a constable stand on a cordon for 8hrs+ when you can pay someone with no powers £20k to do it? It’s why we use private security on a lot of our buildings, saves money and actual police time. While I’d rather have more PCs, in these tough times I’m happy to see cost saving initiatives trialled that free up police to do police work 

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Zulu 22

Don't waste the money on private security guards, use it to employ more officers. There would be obvious arguments about availability, security, and also powers. I do not know of any powers for obstructing a security guard.

Edited by Zulu 22

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MindTheGap
1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

Don't waste the money on private security guards, use it to employ more officers. There would be obvious arguments about availability, security, and also powers. I do not know of any powers for obstructing a security guard.

I think the plan is they'd be accredited with certain powers - whether I agree or not is another matter, I don't believe any crime scenes should be secured by private industry.

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Zulu 22
47 minutes ago, MindTheGap said:

I think the plan is they'd be accredited with certain powers - whether I agree or not is another matter, I don't believe any crime scenes should be secured by private industry.

I am of the same mind that crime scenes should not be secured by any private industry. The responsibility of securing is ours and, ours alone.

It is essential that scene security is uppermost above anything else. Once the evidence is compromised in any way then it is lost, useless. I remember once, refusing a Detective Superintendent access to a crime scene, as he was drunk, smoking and not fully protected. I was publicly backed but what happened behind the back, well that is another story.

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BlueBob
3 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Don't waste the money on private security guards, use it to employ more officers. There would be obvious arguments about availability, security, and also powers. I do not know of any powers for obstructing a security guard.

If we accept, at least for the short term, there is no extra funding coming for policing, it’s a very hard fact that policing has to operate within its means.  If that results in using private staff to maintain a cordon and allow officers back to normal duties then surely that is making the best of a bad thing.

its burying the head in the sand not to seek ways to best use the resources that are available within the budget available.  

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Zulu 22

Yet Private staff have to be paid for.  I would not trust private staff with the responsibility which, sometimes, needs re enforcing, even with Police Officers. It is too easy to be blase about that responsibility. The money has to be found from somewhere so why not employ more Police Officers?

Usually with a serious crime it is declared a major incident and the cost comes from a separate reserve fund.

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