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Mikeh2000

US policing experiences

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Mikeh2000

I have family members in the US and as a result I've taken advantage of doing ridealongs with forces in the Phoenix Arizona area.

The main thing that stood out for me over there was that the paperwork and bureaucracy was a lot less. Take for instance, we dealt with a shoplifter, the store detectives did their own statements which consisted of about 5 lines on a piece of paper, a quick discussion with the store detective, and we were off to custody with the suspect, who as it was her third offence of shoplifting, was going to be jailed for 8 years, and lose custody of her children as well, who would be taken into care. We got to custody, she was put straight into a cell with no search done, so belts laces etc went with her. When I questioned it, and why, they replied that if she wanted to kill herself that was up to her, and not a police matter! The statement was then given to the jailer and we were back out again, custody turnaround was less than 10 minutes.

I've got several more I can write about, which I'll do over time, I don't want to overdo it on the typing lol.

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Yeahduffman

I did a ride along with Lee County Sheriff's Department in Florida. Went to a fraud (adult son claiming on mother's 'benefits/food vouchers') - she was told to stop letting him get access to her food vouchers by being responsible and not letting him in her house. That was that. Also went to a theft of boat engine where the victim wrote their own statement of half a page and the deputy updated via his in car terminal. Amazed at their lack of paperwork, something I was on awe at!

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Mikeh2000

Another job, we were called to a asexual assault on an 11 year old at a pizza parlour, and upon our arrival came across an elderly male with a gun being held to his head by the victims father. The father was understandably upset, but calmed down when we arrived. The victim was interviewed on a dictation tape machine in the foyer of the parlour, which took less than 5 minutes, the officer then checked the cctv, which showed the offence, then had it burnt off, so I was outside with the father for about quarter of an hour.

I got chatting to him, he told me that he was an ms18 gang member, had already killed 2 people, and the only reason he hadn't blown the elderly gentleman's head off was because he didn't want to upset his kids!

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Mikeh2000

Forgot to mention, when the officer came back out he told the suspect the cctv showed the offence, then after a quick radio call, gave him some paperwork with a court date on it. We weren't there for more than half an hour in total, over here we,d still be booking the suspect into custody, plus victim video interview, witness statements etc

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Eddzz!!

Anymore of these stories? Very interesting to hear what it's like over the pond!

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Mazza

I went on a fly-along with LAPD Air Support unit.  I wasn't involved in law enforcement at that time so I can't say I noticed much but they were pretty much left to their own devices as to where they went, until called upon.  It was a Sunday so a quiet day.  Interesting to listen to the police radio as they use so many codes for things that we would just say.  I'm sure after a while you'd get used to it.

 

They also took evidential photos on their phones, rather than a camera on board, and emailed it to the relevant person - not sure if this has an impact like it does with us.

 

The unit was used for taking photos of a road traffic accident, looking for suspects in an armed robbery, and I think at one point we were looking for a stolen/joyride vehicle.

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Eddzz!!

I went on a fly-along with LAPD Air Support unit.  I wasn't involved in law enforcement at that time so I can't say I noticed much but they were pretty much left to their own devices as to where they went, until called upon.  It was a Sunday so a quiet day.  Interesting to listen to the police radio as they use so many codes for things that we would just say.  I'm sure after a while you'd get used to it.

 

They also took evidential photos on their phones, rather than a camera on board, and emailed it to the relevant person - not sure if this has an impact like it does with us.

 

The unit was used for taking photos of a road traffic accident, looking for suspects in an armed robbery, and I think at one point we were looking for a stolen/joyride vehicle.

​Interesting story! Mind boggles at all the codes they use on the radio - I have always wondered!
 

Regarding the photos of evidence, officers in North Wales do this using their issued Blackberries.

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Mazza

​Interesting story! Mind boggles at all the codes they use on the radio - I have always wondered!

Regarding the photos of evidence, officers in North Wales do this using their issued Blackberries.

​These were definitely personal phones rather than issued, which was the interesting part - didn't seem like a big no-no.

 

Once in a lifetime opportunity though, the pilot and observer were both ex-military guys with hundreds of stories to tell.

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Marty McFly

​Interesting story! Mind boggles at all the codes they use on the radio - I have always wondered! 

Regarding the photos of evidence, officers in North Wales do this using their issued Blackberries.

​Still fairly common in some places over here.

The list of codes in what was strathclyde police is fairly large.

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Eebs

We spent 8 and a half hours dealing with a shop lifter(caught red handed and admitted it) (and at this point we only just sent it off to CPS) and the suspect was bailed.

where the shop lifting took place was 10minutes away from our station/custody, 40minutes in total travel time, the rest was case building, statements. It's amazing to see how quick turn arounds they have :o 

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MerseyLLB

Bearing in mind we share legal systems I'm amazed how much nonsense we have in place in relation to 'continuity' when it comes to images etc.

 

why on earth do we seize phones for pictures taken etc. 

 

if if I could just take iPhone pics and email them and exhibit them it would save a gigantic amount of time. Especially as these photos are rarely looked at in the end!

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jimmyriddle

Few years back I did part of a night shift with Raleigh PD (North Carolina). First thing I noticed were the decent levels of staff numbers and available patrol cars. One each wow! They all stood up and did the PoA with a live video link with the other areas of the city who were all signing on. A good reminder at the end as to why they were there "...indivisible with liberty and justice for all". I wasn't even a resident at the time, just there on holiday and I got the feeling of community and pride that seemed to go with it. All great guys / girls who seemed really well bonded as a unit.

Most notable job we went to was a prozzy doing the biz with a customer in the back of his car in a parking lot of a housing complex after dark. We got there to find the private security guard had him cuffed in the back of his car, and her cuffed to the rear outside the John's car. He of course had the same kit on as the bobby and seemed in full control of the situation. None of this "He can't do that he's not a bobby" stuff. He got the lowdown from the security guard and ran their details.

Printed off some paperwork from the printer in the car and sent the john on his way. Turns out every bobby has their day in court - literally. All their cases are heard on one day at the local courthouse to maximize their time out of court. He had already printed off his charges and court date for the customer and sent him on his way. Think he also trespass warned the guy as over there trespass is a criminal offence across the board, not just on schools, train station property etc. like with BTP. So AFAIK, no CCTV, statement etc. taken really until after the guy went to court around 6 weeks later and if he said "not guilty".

He locked up the lady of the night on a FTA for another offence. We took her to the central jailhouse for that county. This is used by a few different cities and the Sheriff's office, any federal agencies etc. who all take them to the same place, I guess for rendition purposes but also efficiency. A centralized custody suite, sound familiar future UK?!

Looking on the arrest record website (most if not all states it's public info) - this arrest on the night, further to the FTA she was also charged with trespass and B&E. I assume B&E because she entered for non-lawful purposes and also the 2nd degree trespass because she had come back after being told to get lost last time? I have attached a PDF of her arrest record when I was on the ride along. You can see her variety of other arrests if you search her name using the county website: Wake County Sheriff's Office - CCBI . I've also had a look on the corrections website to see if she got probation, did time, etc. for this, but for some reason those offences don't seem to be on there: NC - Dept Public Safety - offender search

All in all, I was very impressed with the staffing, efficiency and simplicity of it all. I was also impressed on how warmed the public seemed to be to them as well as the officer's approach that the VoC gets to decide what happens to the offender, not the other way around. More on that later.

mugshot.pdf

Edited by jimmyriddle
info _ links
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obsidian_eclipse
Few years back I did part of a night shift with Raleigh PD (North Carolina). First thing I noticed were the decent levels of staff numbers and available patrol cars. One each wow! They all stood up and did the PoA with a live video link with the other areas of the city who were all signing on. A good reminder at the end as to why they were there "...indivisible with liberty and justice for all". I wasn't even a resident at the time, just there on holiday and I got the feeling of community and pride that seemed to go with it. All great guys / girls who seemed really well bonded as a unit.

Most notable job we went to was a prozzy doing the biz with a customer in the back of his car in a parking lot of a housing complex after dark. We got there to find the private security guard had him cuffed in the back of his car, and her cuffed to the rear outside the John's car. He of course had the same kit on as the bobby and seemed in full control of the situation. None of this "He can't do that he's not a bobby" stuff. He got the lowdown from the security guard and ran their details.

Printed off some paperwork from the printer in the car and sent the john on his way. Turns out every bobby has their day in court - literally. All their cases are heard on one day at the local courthouse to maximize their time out of court. He had already printed off his charges and court date for the customer and sent him on his way. Think he also trespass warned the guy as over there trespass is a criminal offence across the board, not just on schools, train station property etc. like with BTP. So AFAIK, no CCTV, statement etc. taken really until after the guy went to court around 6 weeks later and if he said "not guilty".

He locked up the lady of the night on a FTA for another offence. We took her to the central jailhouse for that county. This is used by a few different cities and the Sheriff's office, any federal agencies etc. who all take them to the same place, I guess for rendition purposes but also efficiency. A centralized custody suite, sound familiar future UK?!

Looking on the arrest record website (most if not all states it's public info) - this arrest on the night, further to the FTA she was also charged with trespass and B&E. I assume B&E because she entered for non-lawful purposes and also the 2nd degree trespass because she had come back after being told to get lost last time? I have attached a PDF of her arrest record when I was on the ride along. You can see her variety of other arrests if you search her name using the county website: Wake County Sheriff's Office - CCBI . I've also had a look on the corrections website to see if she got probation, did time, etc. for this, but for some reason those offences don't seem to be on there: NC - Dept Public Safety - offender search

All in all, I was very impressed with the staffing, efficiency and simplicity of it all. I was also impressed on how warmed the public seemed to be to them as well as the officer's approach that the VoC gets to decide what happens to the offender, not the other way around. More on that later.

mugshot.pdf

Goodness gracious.. It sounds like heaven, where do we sign up?

Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk

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jimmyriddle

Oh, and apart from being a total babe as you can see she was also quit polite esp. as she could have done some serious time. She was sliding all over the backseat because it was one solid industrial plastic shelf, one of these normal car seat things probably easier to wash down. Cuffed to the rear no questions asked too.

In the jail it was actually quite orderly, everyone was compliant. All firearms are left in the car due to the risk of having a prisoner getting hold of tnem and also a round shot off in a confined area with solid walls... Booking in was around 15mins and about the same for the night magistrate to change over. 24 hours. 6th smendment is it? Right to fair and speedy trial?

There we met some.other bobbies from a nearby city and my guy obvs. introduced me. They of coursed how we policed with no firearm and how there used to be a bobby from the Met who worked for the sheriff's office there. He tried to stop a guy legging it from the court who caused damage in doing so apparently. When they asked "why didn't you shoot him?" his response was "that's how we do it back home". Apparently he now works in California after moving out there with his new (presumably stunning!) US wife.

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Sceptre
On 29 July 2015 at 17:04, MerseyLLB said:

Bearing in mind we share legal systems I'm amazed how much nonsense we have in place in relation to 'continuity' when it comes to images etc.

why on earth do we seize phones for pictures taken etc. 

if if I could just take iPhone pics and email them and exhibit them it would save a gigantic amount of time. Especially as these photos are rarely looked at in the end!

I'm convinced these excuses are often conjured up by people in the job or the CPS rather than any credible evidential need. If it's a reasonable witness then I can't see a reason not to get them to email the picture and produce it as their exhibit, ask them to keep it on their phone and only if its integrity is challenged down the line actually download it off the phone in the normal manner as a separate police exhibit - surely it's high time the concerns about email attachment integrity should go the same way as the practice of putting memory cards into evidence bags just for the sake of it. The same concerns are rarely raised about CCTV downloaded by who knows who, who knows how, perhaps because having a physical disc gives people a false sense of security and they're uneasy about anything intangible.

We should remember that S19 only allows us to seize items where we believe it necessary to prevent them being concealed, lost, damaged, altered or destroyed, and common law powers are unlikely to support seizing items from witnesses particularly for volume crime (Ghani v Jones 1969), so often there may be no power to routinely seize phones etc unless the witness is willing to give it to us and we would have to return it forthwith at their request.

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