Complaints against officers

[Kiwibrummie 4]

Just wondering if some experienced traffic cops could offer some advice or best practice. Where do you stand when you stop a vehicle for a routine check and the driver cooperates but refuses to lower the window more than 2 inches and refuses to turn the engine off? I encountered this recently and had never been in that situation before. It was only afterwards I considered I could have asked for a specimen on breath. However, is there anything stopping the driver from saying they will take the test sat in their car with the engine still on and the window down only enough for the officer to administer this test? 

[Sceptre + 2,701]

I'd just carry on as usual, until any offences present themselves. Someone doing this is also probably filming you, desperately wants to wrong-foot you and get into some sort of confrontation and probably has something they're trying to deflect your attention away from anyway. I'd probably suspect they had something to hide and would be even more diligent.

 You can require their documents through the window, report them and possibly even administer a moving traffic offence breath test through the gap if it's safe for you to do so. Of course, the offence is failing to cooperate with a preliminary test without a reasonable excuse rather than failing to provide - if cooperation requires them to leave the vehicle, for instance you're not prepared to stand on the off-side of their car on the hard shoulder of a busy motorway, and they refuse then you could report them or if met exercise the power of arrest in S6D. No excuse can ever be reasonable unless the person required to provide a specimen was physically or mentally unable to do it, or its provision would entail a substantial risk to his  health (R v Lennard 1973).

If you decide to stop and search them and the vehicle then staying inside to frustrate that is straightforward obstruction/obstruction of a drugs search, likewise if you're going to uplift it. If you have access to a vehicle examiner/PG9 trained officer, they have the power to test a vehicle under S67 RTA including driving it, and to require the driver to comply with reasonable instructions - obstruction or failure to comply is an offence.

The obvious risk is of them making off suddenly. If you're trained and equipped with them, you could put a Barracuda stinger either side of the front wheel as a deterrent, or reinforce the stop. Definitely don't walk in front of the car, lean into it or have your feet close enough to get run over!

[POM0272 242]

6 hours ago, Kiwibrummie said:

Just wondering if some experienced traffic cops could offer some advice or best practice. Where do you stand when you stop a vehicle for a routine check and the driver cooperates but refuses to lower the window more than 2 inches and refuses to turn the engine off? I encountered this recently and had never been in that situation before. It was only afterwards I considered I could have asked for a specimen on breath. However, is there anything stopping the driver from saying they will take the test sat in their car with the engine still on and the window down only enough for the officer to administer this test? 

Know your powers and use them. You’ve got more powers when someone is in a car than when they are not.

Let’s just rewind and assume that the driver point blank refuses to wind down the window and speak with you. You could at this point safely suspect they are not providing their documents when required to do so under s163, 164 and 165 of the RTA. (It would become tricky if you asked through the window and they duly provided for you to read, but I’ll send you 10p and my number and you can ring me when that happens). They’re committing an offence and you cannot issue a producer as they cannot sign or accept it. So at that point you can request a breath test and drugs wipe. If they refuse and I would respectfully suggest they are doing so, you can then force entry under s165A RTA and s17 PACE and arrest them. I’d respectfully suggest you could seize their car too as I would be suspecting they neither have a licence or insurance on the vehicle they are in and have possibly even TWOC’d or stolen it.

Of course if they’re trying to be clever and open the window only slightly to engage with you, providing details, documents as requested or not, you can still do the breath test in this way if you have the grounds. If they fail to provide as they can’t physically do do it in this manner. Same thing applies, open the car by force and arrest them. If they then manage to provide in the back of the van and are under the limit, tell them to learn a lesson, not be so stupid in future and repair their car.

Make sure you document your actions, are polite at such recalcitrance, consider 5 step appeals to show your reasonability throughout. Don’t rise to them. And make sure you know your stuff sections and all so you can quote it at them. Every frontline officer should know s4,5,5a,6,163,164,165 and 165A of the RTA to quote to people, it is your bread and butter and will serve you well.

[Sceptre + 2,701]

2 minutes ago, POM0272 said:

Let’s just rewind and assume that the driver point blank refuses to wind down the window and speak with you. You could at this point safely suspect they are not providing their documents when required to do so under s163, 164 and 165 of the RTA.... They’re committing an offence and you cannot issue a producer as they cannot sign or accept it. So at that point you can request a breath test and drugs wipe.

The power to require a preliminary test is only for traffic offences committed while the vehicle was in motion, so this last part isn't quite right. 

[POM0272 242]

I’m not traffic so I’ll accept I’m probably wrong as mentioned above