Port of Tilbury-Police Constable

[Fedster + 1,307]

End of IPLDP predicted by one force to reduce successful BAME applicants by 90 per cent.

Date - 5th July 2021
By - Chloe Livadeas

The College of Policing is closing the Initial Policing Learning and Development Program (IPLDP), claiming it no longer prepares officers for today’s policing.

The Police Education Qualification Framework (PEQF) intends to professionalise the service by making it a requirement for a recruit to either have a degree or obtain one as they join.

But voices of concern from a number of forces about what this could do to the service's other aim to better represent communities are growing louder. 

Nottinghamshire's Superintendent Sukesh Verma, who was force lead for Operation Uplift, said: “When uplift started back at the end of 2019, I said if we abolish IPLDP, we will lose almost 90 per cent of the Black and Ethnic Minority Ethnic candidates that are successful.”

Nottinghamshire’s recruitment drive has been be a 70/30 split between IPLDP and Police Constable Degree Apprenticeship (PCDA). They say they’re doing well on diversity, with around 25 per cent of new recruits from BAME backgrounds.

Supt. Verma said the degree programme would cause a level of discrimination against certain groups, including BAME and migrant communities.

He also said there was a cultural challenge as non-English communities tend to have bigger families a lot younger, meaning they are less able to take on studying while working.

Last year Supt Verma also told Police Oracle there were a “far lower” number of BAME applicants coming from universities.

“So the thing that I was very clear with the chief about is that this is a strategy which hasn’t been designed in any shape or form around diversity,” he said. “It’s been designed around alleged professionalisation of policing.”

In March Lincolnshire Police’s uplift project manager told Police Oracle that entry requirements were a "key barrier" to recruiting from migrant communities. Lincolnshire is not even a PEQF force, and was referring to the entry requirement of a level 3 qualification, equivalent to two A levels or a policing qualification. 

The college has previously declined to comment on whether it has carried out its own research on the impact of PEQF on BAME recruitment.

A college spokesperson said: “Initial statistics show that the rate of recruitment for candidates from ethnic minority backgrounds through the College of Policing’s entry routes is higher than IPLDP but we are not complacent and know that more needs to be done to improve the diversity of the police workforce.

“We have developed a widening access to higher education programme which is specific to policing. This is intended to help people from diverse backgrounds to gain the entry level qualifications to either join the police or go on to study at a higher education level, while finding out more about policing and whether it can be the right career choice for them."

They also said new training for recruits has already been adopted by 33 forces and contributed to the government’s target of recruiting 20,000 new officers and all remaining forces have plans in place to achieve transition to the new entry routes in 2022.

They pointed out the apprenticeship is only one of three entry routes into policing and that potential applicants can also undertake the pre-join Degree in Professional Policing which does not require them to work at the same time as studying, or the Degree Holder Entry Programme route.

See:interview: HERE

View On Police Oracle

 

 

 

 

 

[Sceptre + 2,701]

 

“So the thing that I was very clear with the chief about is that this is a strategy which hasn’t been designed in any shape or form around diversity,” he said. “It’s been designed around alleged professionalisation of policing.”

And so it should be. This sort of tokenism and casual assumption that certain groups couldn't reach certain standards does nobody any favours. 

[Zulu 22 + 4,574]

At last someone speaking a little bit, well a lot really, of Common Sense and surprise, surprise it was not the COP.

A University degree does not mean that you will be a good Copper.  Yes, you need a good sound education but it is Common Sense and, the ability to apply Policing.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

 

At last someone speaking a little bit, well a lot really, of Common Sense and surprise, surprise it was not the COP.

A University degree does not mean that you will be a good Copper.  Yes, you need a good sound education but it is Common Sense and, the ability to apply Policing.

Was it Mark Twain or Abraham Lincoln who said, ‘It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than talk and remove all doubt about it.’? 

[Sceptre + 2,701]

 

A University degree does not mean that you will be a good Copper.  Yes, you need a good sound education but it is Common Sense and, the ability to apply Policing.

I'm not sure why you would want to put your former profession and by extension yourself down like that, but policing is a complex and multifaceted calling requiring a diversity of skills and detailed technical knowledge. The people who go around talking about it being common sense tend in my experience to be using that as an excuse to hide behind. 

The PCDA is a fair and accessible way to drive up standards while remaining accessible to those whose circumstances don't lend themselves to conventional university studying, and deliver higher-quality training than the IPLDP did. I don't believe for one moment that you agree with this superintendent that we should settle a lower standard simply to improve diversity.

[Zulu 22 + 4,574]

1 hour ago, Sceptre said:

I'm not sure why you would want to put your former profession and by extension yourself down like that, but policing is a complex and multifaceted calling requiring a diversity of skills and detailed technical knowledge. The people who go around talking about it being common sense tend in my experience to be using that as an excuse to hide behind. 

The PCDA is a fair and accessible way to drive up standards while remaining accessible to those whose circumstances don't lend themselves to conventional university studying, and deliver higher-quality training than the IPLDP did. I don't believe for one moment that you agree with this superintendent that we should settle a lower standard simply to improve diversity.

It is the University Degree Course which the article criticises and, is also the one that I criticise.  I stand behind my comments that Policing is about Common sense coupled with study.  I have known a few University Degree holders who have been excellent and I have known many who have been an absolute disaster.  You can learn and spout, Parrot Fashion Law and procedure but need that evil "Common Sense" to equate it into practical Policing.

Superintendent Sukesh Verma was just stating the obvious that you do NOT need a Degree in Policing.  The majority of University students come out with a degree with little, if any, life experience.

[Tudor1695 14]

Admittedly this is not something I have looked into properly yet, though an email was sent through to explain that they were moving away from one process (IPLDP) and into another (PEQF). I know little enough about both at this point to offer an opinion, but I'll be wanting to look at both to see the differences and the thought process behind the changes.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

4 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

It is the University Degree Course which the article criticises and, is also the one that I criticise.  I stand behind my comments that Policing is about Common sense coupled with study.  I have known a few University Degree holders who have been excellent and I have known many who have been an absolute disaster.  You can learn and spout, Parrot Fashion Law and procedure but need that evil "Common Sense" to equate it into practical Policing.

Superintendent Sukesh Verma was just stating the obvious that you do NOT need a Degree in Policing.  The majority of University students come out with a degree with little, if any, life experience.

The advantage of a degree is that you are thought to read articles and understand them. And more - compare and contrast, critically analyse…
The Supt quoted is NOT criticising the PQEF because it gives student officers a degree level qualification. He is criticising it because he claims it will deter BAME people from applying. A point challenged by the CoP. “Initial statistics show that the rate of recruitment for candidates from ethnic minority backgrounds through the College of Policing’s entry routes is higher than IPLDP.”

[POM0272 242]

My biggest concern about the degree programme is not that someone gets a qualification from it. It’s more the fact that students are not going to be prepared properly for life “on the beat”.  It’s a tough world out there and the world of Sanford or whatever it’s called is nothing but fantasy.
 

When I was at training school the best teachers were not those who were academics whose idea of confrontation was an arm wrestle in the student Union. It was the ex bobbies who told you it straight and how it was going to be. In fact the former were the worst, trying to treat you like a primary school child whilst telling you how to deal with a domestic they’ve never been to.

The truth is we shovel a hell of a lot of #### and much of what we deal with is crim on crim; or you are being used as a pawn in a game of one-up-man-ship between two warring parties. That’s when the common sense comes in. And it won’t be taught because very few police officers are qualified academics, Drs or possess a degree. So it’ll be left to the theory men. I get we need to know the law, knowledge is power and you need to be able to tell Clever Dick your powers and what you’re doing when he opens the door saying “you need a warrant, mate”.

The truth is - and I say this to newbies - you’ve got to toughen up quickly because people ain’t going to be nice to you. They’re going to exploit every perceived weakness in you and make your life as difficult as possible. I fear university life will make a snowflake generation melt.

 

 

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

39 minutes ago, POM0272 said:

My biggest concern about the degree programme is not that someone gets a qualification from it. It’s more the fact that students are not going to be prepared properly for life “on the beat”.  It’s a tough world out there and the world of Sanford or whatever it’s called is nothing but fantasy.
 

When I was at training school the best teachers were not those who were academics whose idea of confrontation was an arm wrestle in the student Union. It was the ex bobbies who told you it straight and how it was going to be. In fact the former were the worst, trying to treat you like a primary school child whilst telling you how to deal with a domestic they’ve never been to.

The truth is we shovel a hell of a lot of #### and much of what we deal with is crim on crim; or you are being used as a pawn in a game of one-up-man-ship between two warring parties. That’s when the common sense comes in. And it won’t be taught because very few police officers are qualified academics, Drs or possess a degree. So it’ll be left to the theory men. I get we need to know the law, knowledge is power and you need to be able to tell Clever Dick your powers and what you’re doing when he opens the door saying “you need a warrant, mate”.

The truth is - and I say this to newbies - you’ve got to toughen up quickly because people ain’t going to be nice to you. They’re going to exploit every perceived weakness in you and make your life as difficult as possible. I fear university life will make a snowflake generation melt.

 

 

But none of that will be missed. Even if someone joins with a degree it’s 2 years of operational training - sounds like what we called probationary period. 
For those who join on the apprenticeship its 80% on the streets and 20% ‘off the job’ learning for a minimum of 3 years. With operational competence achieved by the end of year 3. 
The opponents of the scheme talk of it as though it’s a few years jolly at Uni. Pick up your uniform on Monday, jump in the car a zoom off with blues and twos going. 

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

Some people seem to have a very skewed view of university.

If someone joins the job after having been in banking or a landscape gardener then they're OK, but if they've come from university then they must be some kind of wet behind the ears snowflake?

Perhaps some of the skills required of a cop, say, objective reasoning, are not being shown in this thread.

Just because a person has a degree, it doesn't mean that they don't have other life experiences. One could (A) work a hard part-time job with early starts, get one's degree, go into banking, then decide to be a cop. Versus (B) leave school, go into banking and then decide to be a cop.

Is the non-degree candidate automatically better than the 2:1 BSc?

I also see a lot of people refer to a degree in Modern Dance (etc) and ask what good it is, as if the only requirement is the degree. Candidates still need to pass the other initial criteria, get through Training School and their Probation. It's not like their reading of Greek classics gives them a pass to become a PSU Sergeant without passing Go and collecting £200.

Lastly, many of the cops I know already have degrees. They didn't need them to get in, and they're very good cops who don't shy away from conflict, nor hard work. They own workloads and look for solutions, put together decent files for a very demanding CPS (which is largely staffed by degree holders), respond, deal with violent criminals, use tasers, are public order trained, and they are successful in what they do. But the fact that they have degrees blows a hole in the myth that degree holders, somehow, cannot, or are less likely to, make good cops.

Many of the arguments about the current 'crop' seem to be more to do with the selection process than with the fact that those selected have degrees.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

3 hours ago, Indiana Jones said:

Some people seem to have a very skewed view of university.

If someone joins the job after having been in banking or a landscape gardener then they're OK, but if they've come from university then they must be some kind of wet behind the ears snowflake?

Perhaps some of the skills required of a cop, say, objective reasoning, are not being shown in this thread.

Just because a person has a degree, it doesn't mean that they don't have other life experiences. One could (A) work a hard part-time job with early starts, get one's degree, go into banking, then decide to be a cop. Versus (B) leave school, go into banking and then decide to be a cop.

Is the non-degree candidate automatically better than the 2:1 BSc?

I also see a lot of people refer to a degree in Modern Dance (etc) and ask what good it is, as if the only requirement is the degree. Candidates still need to pass the other initial criteria, get through Training School and their Probation. It's not like their reading of Greek classics gives them a pass to become a PSU Sergeant without passing Go and collecting £200.

Lastly, many of the cops I know already have degrees. They didn't need them to get in, and they're very good cops who don't shy away from conflict, nor hard work. They own workloads and look for solutions, put together decent files for a very demanding CPS (which is largely staffed by degree holders), respond, deal with violent criminals, use tasers, are public order trained, and they are successful in what they do. But the fact that they have degrees blows a hole in the myth that degree holders, somehow, cannot, or are less likely to, make good cops.

Many of the arguments about the current 'crop' seem to be more to do with the selection process than with the fact that those selected have degrees.

But, but, but … didn’t you read that Zulu knew ‘many’ degree holders who were an absolute disaster? What more proof do you need? 

[POM0272 242]

I don’t think anyone has an issue with someone joining the job with a degree. I have one. There is very little relevant life experience which will prepare you to be a police officer. In some ways the job gives you the life experience on the job.

What the issue is for me is expecting non-police people to somehow reach police officers and expect them to be ready or spouting anything but theory. Ex bobbies give you this in training school. Non police officers do not as they’ve never done the job before.

An example I can give you is from training school and a “senior trainer” telling us it won’t take long until we lock up a diabetic for s4 RTA 88. I’ve still not done it, neither has anyone I joined with or anyone I’ve ever worked with. And I can guarantee Mr Theory never did either.

My fear is people are coming out NOW unprepared or ready or having a realistic idea of what to expect. And Chief Constables are questioning new recruits readiness/preparedness. And we push towards a less confrontational training method to expect a better result. I think it will only lower standards, put more on already stretched tutors, senior cops and Sgts to “turn people around”. But we might have someone who can pass their Sgts/CID exam early because they know case law in depth. Or come across as a Clever Dick to Clever Dick on the door step - we know how that ends. When you police an area you need to learn and understand the language the people who live there speak - it might not pleasant or PC but they’ll respect it. Best bit of advice I was ever given.

 

 

[Zulu 22 + 4,574]

Trainers always used to say, "We teach you the theory but, theory and Practise are poles apart"   My favourite University Graduate who received accelerated promotion to Sergeant. We had an armed robbery on a Security Van and one of my PC's arrested four males on suspicion.  The Uni Sergeant took the security guard to the van where the suspects were be held. She pointed them out and asked the guard, "Is that them"  He replied "No".  She did not tell anyone what she had done and the arrest was followed through.   Now everyone on here does not need to be told what was wrong but, she kept quiet until came out in the unlawful arrest procedure complaint.

Another was on patrol when a report of a smash and grab at an electrical shop.  She saw a man walking along the street carrying a bag.  It had several new transistor radio's in it with sales tags attached. At least she stopped him but, he told her he had just found the bag and was taking it to the Police Station. It just so happened that he was walking in the opposite direction and dripping with sweat.  She offered to take them in for him, and did not even take his details.  You could not make it up.

A bog standard PC who was not academically gifted came upon a car which he checked. It was owned by a man who was circulated as wanted for Robbery.  It was 2am in the morning so he kicked the car setting off the alarm and stood back in the shadows. After a while a man came out of a nearby house and went to the car.  Checking it was his car and what a nuisance it was to have a false alarm disturb his sleep,  He then arrested the man for a long outstanding serious offence.  That is what Policing is about. 

[Sceptre + 2,701]

Those anecdotes prove absolutely nothing about anyone except the people in question.