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Met police news. Met wide launch of operation to convict those who assault NHS Staff


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Known as Operation Cavell, the initiative will see a senior officer review all reports of assaults and hate crime against NHS staff.

Following a three-month pilot, the National Health Service (NHS), Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) and Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) have been working in partnership to launch the scheme today (Wednesday, 31 March) which aims to increase convictions and protect NHS staff on the frontline.   https://news.met.police.uk/news/met-wide-launch-of-operation-to-convict-those-who-assault-nhs-staff-424456

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So EROing case files then?  Any public servant, especially medical staff should have offences committed against them highlighted and the court take appropriate action against offenders.  Tha

Would these be the same "Mickey Mouse" forces that bail  Home Office forces out of the brown stuff with huge numbers of AFOs every time a massive event happens, or Op Temperer gets called? Perhap

The point of bespoke forces is that they can offer a service to an area or industry that the HO police cannot or for whatever reason is unwilling to provide. Usually this falls under the guise of some

Radman
1 hour ago, Member of public 1 said:

Known as Operation Cavell, the initiative will see a senior officer review all reports of assaults and hate crime against NHS staff.

Following a three-month pilot, the National Health Service (NHS), Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) and Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) have been working in partnership to launch the scheme today (Wednesday, 31 March) which aims to increase convictions and protect NHS staff on the frontline.   https://news.met.police.uk/news/met-wide-launch-of-operation-to-convict-those-who-assault-nhs-staff-424456

So EROing case files then? 

Any public servant, especially medical staff should have offences committed against them highlighted and the court take appropriate action against offenders. 

That isn't the problem, the problem is a lack of adequate people in place to protect staff to begin with. Security at the NHS is woeful, they're often not even security but glorified parking wardens with a security uniform who refuse to intervene at the slightest hint of aggression let alone violence. 

I've been banging on about this for years, the railways has BTP, the Civil Nuclear industry has CNC and the Ports have their own historic constabularies, the NHS staff and patients deserve to have that added layer of protection in place.

If NHS staff don't deserve it who does? Train people up properly, equip them properly and put them in place just as Hospital Police exist across the world including the commonwealth. 

Edited by Radman
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Dave SYP

I agree entirely Radman 👍 Near to me is one of the largest teaching hospitals in Europe and they’re lucky if they have 2 security staff working the whole site! It’s not just A +E response, they get called to shoplifting in the food areas and to restrain and control dementia patients on wards. A thankless job for the meagre salary they are paid and little opportunity for proper training or progression by all accounts .

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BizzieBee
On 31/03/2021 at 10:07, Radman said:

Train people up properly, equip them properly and put them in place just as Hospital Police

Alternatively, avoid paying out millions upon millions on yet another unnecessary police force and send some of the plethora of lazy p—-takers who otherwise spend their time rinsing taxpayers money sitting on their lazy a—— playing Minecraft, Candy Crush et. al. 

These are the type who wouldn’t be missed if they were stationed elsewhere. They’d sure as hell keep themselves occupied during downtime, too. The police service in the UK is rife with this, and goes unmanaged. 

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Dave SYP
1 hour ago, BizzieBee said:

Alternatively, avoid paying out millions upon millions on yet another unnecessary police force and send some of the plethora of lazy p—-takers who otherwise spend their time rinsing taxpayers money sitting on their lazy a—— playing Minecraft, Candy Crush et. al. 

These are the type who wouldn’t be missed if they were stationed elsewhere. They’d sure as hell keep themselves occupied during downtime, too. The police service in the UK is rife with this, and goes unmanaged. 

That’s obviously a supervisory issue force wide. They need a sergeant or inspector with a pair to root them out. I’m sure that type would make a hash of a job left unsupervised anywhere! 
Back to topic I think much better security like the ones they have in major shopping centres would be the answer, but that costs money and the Hospital Trusts would need to look at their budgets 🙄

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Father Jack

The current "rent a Muppet" security contracted to most hospitals, clearly isn't up to the task. I'm  also all in favour of "office cats" and **** takers being turfed out to actually do some work.

However, if the local force is supplying officers to hospitals, what's to stop them being abstracted to the city centre every time there's a massive punch up. With that in mind, I'm also in agreement with Radman's proposal. Plus, also from a trust manager's point of view. If I'm paying for a police presence 24/7, that's what I would expect.

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BizzieBee
4 hours ago, Dave SYP said:

but that costs money and the Hospital Trusts would need to look at their budgets 🙄

Precisely the issue. It’s the NHS. Another public sector body. Another round of people who don’t understand money and budgeting, nor their Bottom Line from their Bottom End. 

The NHS has always suffered an incredible amount of wastage - even more than the Police (which really is saying something)

What’s really frustrating is the mission-creep across a variety of factions - with most of it landing on the doorstep of the Police. The ‘Leaders’ daren’t press too much or it’ll cause tarnish on their shiny QPM badge.

Better security, yes. A new model, yes. But not another Police force full of lazy and incompetent buffoons being paid a good salary to do very little. And that’s before they go up the ranks to job titles that pretend they’re doing something meaningful.  

That said, the amount of time Police spend at hospitals there may as well be a custody block bolted on. On balance, perhaps not a bad idea after all. But please, no separate force with its own rank structure. There’s too many silos, egos, poor management and self-serving politicians in the job as it is. 

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Radman
20 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

Alternatively, avoid paying out millions upon millions on yet another unnecessary police force and send some of the plethora of lazy p—-takers who otherwise spend their time rinsing taxpayers money sitting on their lazy a—— playing Minecraft, Candy Crush et. al. 

These are the type who wouldn’t be missed if they were stationed elsewhere. They’d sure as hell keep themselves occupied during downtime, too. The police service in the UK is rife with this, and goes unmanaged. 

You could establish it utilising current NHS infrastructure along with their vast HR resources, the officers themselves wouldn't necessarily need to be part of a 'force' merely a body of constables operating within the NHS just as Port Constables are today - this could be done spending no more than what the NHS currently spends on security nationwide, their budget for security alone is significantly larger than BTPs total force budget, which would suggest they COULD go down the route of having a large, national police force compliment of 3000 officers and a further 1500 or so support staff & 230 PCSOs backing them up, but in my opinion there is no need to do this... 

You're assuming an NHS Police constable would be paid inline with HO forces and have a rank structure that goes as high as theirs including Chief Constables etc, the reality is they likely wouldn't need to be paid the same and rank wise you'd need people in a leadership position probably to the rank of inspector but no higher at their posts. Currently attested constables exist protecting parks in London with powers of arrest who are paid inline with a community wardens role yet have HO training, carry PPE including batons and handcuffs and routinely prosecute people to court, same story for Ports Police and a number of other small specialist police bodies, ranks in place at these organisations tends to go no higher than Chief Inspector but again this isn't inline with HO pay or responsibilities. 

The problem isn't HO policing which could have another 10k cops in it, they would all be deployed to police the social service failings and domestic calls which currently are struggled to be resourced. I find it funny you're criticising the police to heavily when the real major issue is an inadequate security industry in place where people employed to do a job are woefully inadequate at doing it, mainly thanks to litigation and a blame culture we've developed over the past 40 years. 

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Wilts20

It’s popular in the States I know, with proper hospital police or sometimes ‘public safety’ officers, but done in an actual law enforcement /safety organisation, not a Mickey Mouse outfit in ill-fitting stab vests. 

Looks like a great idea, I’m sure the hospitals and their users/workers would benefit hugely.

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Radman
1 hour ago, Wilts20 said:

It’s popular in the States I know, with proper hospital police or sometimes ‘public safety’ officers, but done in an actual law enforcement /safety organisation, not a Mickey Mouse outfit in ill-fitting stab vests. 

Looks like a great idea, I’m sure the hospitals and their users/workers would benefit hugely.

The problem is whenever something like this is mentioned people do think it's another large, bloated force when realistically it wouldn't need to be. 

The NHS could employ Constables on a comparable wage to a Neighbourhood Warden or PCSO say 25K a year but also ensure their training, remit and powers are clearly defined, not to mention accountability direct to the trust. Rather than contracting out to a security agency, getting a poor service, poorly trained SIA 'officer' that isn't worth the money and a model ultimately relying on the local cops to act as security in the hospitals (something I think we've all had experience with as operational officers.) 

Too forward thinking, too innovative and something that might actually make a serious difference to ever be considered... 😂

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BlueBob

All in favour of the police stance on dealing with prosecuting as per the OP.  
However, using if a hospital or other facility wants planned, dedicated patrols and presence  by officers then they must pay for it, the same as any other organisation.  
If the nHS wants a policing type presence then they can st to me, fund and function it.  Broth the right support, they can even get legal updates to accommodate it.    What they pay is entirely up to them and I’d not want to make such a basic comparison to a PC, PCSO or any other role 

I could actually see such a role might extend not just around communal spaces for into the treatment zones and areas way outside where a police officer might wander, I mean patrol or gave the requisite knowledge to do so safely and appropriately 

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Zulu 22

And, here was I believing that an NHS Hospital was a public place to which the Police did have a certain responsibility for.   Many officers met and married Nurses because at the slightest suggestion of trouble the Police attended and dealt with the problem.  But then I am regarded as old fashioned.

Hospital security staff have no powers and their only use is as a visibility symbol.

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Radman
1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

And, here was I believing that an NHS Hospital was a public place to which the Police did have a certain responsibility for.   Many officers met and married Nurses because at the slightest suggestion of trouble the Police attended and dealt with the problem.  But then I am regarded as old fashioned.

Hospital security staff have no powers and their only use is as a visibility symbol.

The problem Zulu is that the remit of the HO has totally changed, the model has moved from crime prevention and detection to one of safe guarding with priorities largely out of step with community demands and whilst I'm not a HO cop I've attended numerous joint agency meetings and panels to see this played out time and time again to know not only this is the case but that classic policing in general is simply not being done for what are considered more 'pressing' priorities, this culture and the cuts has led to the decline in society we have seen over the years, I'm a massive believer in that. 

Its funny you mention cops marrying into the NHS, my own wife is front line NHS working in A&E and she feels totally let down at times by the local force as she has been the victim of violence abuse etc with her own trusts security being useless who claim it isn't their job to deal with aggressive people and that it is a police matter, people are getting away with drunken/drugged up abuse (mental health side she obviously she let's go as patients are often confused and scared) with nurses and porters often having to step in as their own security. 

What frustrates her more than anything is when she knows a revenue officer at the train station can call on a BTP cop to deal with abusive persons, she sees it as immensely unfair that certain roles are far more protected because they can call on effectively a private cop to sort it out, just as I am equally annoyed that NHS staff do not have this level of protection and in my opinion are certainly deserving of it just as I think most people would agree. 

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Zulu 22

Your comments are a condemnation of developing Policing.  A & E tends to be a crime hotspot as your wife would attest to and by her concern at being totally let down by her local Force.

As for BTC supporting their Revenue Officers at is one of the reasons they are there, to support those Revenue Officers to do their duties and to be available when an arrest is necessary.

It is, of course, a regular occurrence for officers to be attending A  &  E to deal with RTC's, Assault cases and other victims of crime. Strange that when officers are present the abuse and threats to the staff drop to almost zero.

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Wilts20
10 hours ago, Radman said:

The problem is whenever something like this is mentioned people do think it's another large, bloated force when realistically it wouldn't need to be. 

The NHS could employ Constables on a comparable wage to a Neighbourhood Warden or PCSO say 25K a year but also ensure their training, remit and powers are clearly defined, not to mention accountability direct to the trust. Rather than contracting out to a security agency, getting a poor service, poorly trained SIA 'officer' that isn't worth the money and a model ultimately relying on the local cops to act as security in the hospitals (something I think we've all had experience with as operational officers.) 

Too forward thinking, too innovative and something that might actually make a serious difference to ever be considered... 😂

Yep, could be extremely useful and just ready and equipped to deal with anything at their own area.

I also think it would be a good message for public bodies to take responsibility for their own affairs and not rely on overstretched HO forces and take the initiative.

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