Complaints against officers

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A Chief Constable has renewed calls for Specials to be issued with Tasers after an officer was attacked.

Northants chief backs calls for Specials to get Tasers

Date - 2nd February 2021

By- Chris Smith

Chief Constable for Northamptonshire Police, Nick Adderley said Special Constables should be trained in how to use Tasers now that most of his full-time officers had access to them – ahead of his target of a force-wide roll-out within two years.

His comments followed a assault on an officer where only the intervention of a colleague with a Taser prevented more serious injuries.

CC Adderley revealed on social media: “Over the weekend a Northants officer was forced to the ground and strangled to the point that they nearly lost consciousness. Due to the size of the offender, strikes proved ineffective, PAVA was also ineffective. Thank goodness his colleague had Taser, which saved his life.

He added: “The argument of ‘necessity’ to issue Taser to every officer who wants one, ends right here. Today, I may well have been speaking to the next of kin of my officer, delivering devastating news. Officers deserve all the protection we can give them. I will do exactly that.”

The Chief has been a long-term advocate for Tasers and for all officers to be able to use them.

CC Adderley said the main stumbling block for further rollouts was the lack of representation for Specials, who currently cannot be members of the Police Federation. They would need to be to be covered for further investigations of incidents by the Independent Office for Police Conduct or legal action by offenders.

The Home Office has backed Specials being able to join and legislation is set to be included in the next Parliament but talks have reached an impasse over who pays for their membership.

CC Adderley said: “We have around 20 officers left to train. Next is the Special Constabulary (terms and conditions apply) but we need to offer protection for Specials through the Federation first, which is being worked on.”

Police Federation Chair John Apter welcomed his comments:  “It’s something we’ve been pushing for some time. It’s proven itself time and time again to be a life-saving piece of kit.”

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[BizzieBee 100]

Great sentiment, but it’s been bandied around for years with very little progress. 

Most Specials I know of said they would pay for their own subs, if they so wish. Not every PC does, either. It would be fairly easy to pro-rata payments based on average hours somebody does, and therefore the risk appetite - someone completing 100 hours a month is more likely to need it than someone doing 16 hours (albeit skewed by experience or lack of). 
If you work out the monthly subs payment and then by hours, I’m sure the expense payments would cover it and some. 
 

I did hear something about “the law” needing to change, however. Not quite sure what. 

[Beaker 817]

6 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

Great sentiment, but it’s been bandied around for years with very little progress. 

Most Specials I know of said they would pay for their own subs, if they so wish. Not every PC does, either. It would be fairly easy to pro-rata payments based on average hours somebody does, and therefore the risk appetite - someone completing 100 hours a month is more likely to need it than someone doing 16 hours (albeit skewed by experience or lack of). 
If you work out the monthly subs payment and then by hours, I’m sure the expense payments would cover it and some. 
 

I did hear something about “the law” needing to change, however. Not quite sure what. 

I could afford my own subs, but about half my SCs are students and couldn't really justify it out of what little cash they have.  Also we legally can't use expenses for Fed membership, they're specified for essential expenses incurred. 

The changes in the law are that they need to change it to allow SCs to be members as it specifies SCs can't join IIRC.  Once that's sorted out we'll be members. 

[BizzieBee 100]

17 hours ago, Beaker said:

Also we legally can't use expenses for Fed membership, they're specified for essential expenses incurred. 

I don’t quite follow. I used to spend my expenses on Yorkie bars (with the raisins), lucozade, and 20 B&H Silver. 
They were my expenses. I spent them how I saw fit 😄. 
I’m not saying take it from source, but use it thereafter. 
 

17 hours ago, Beaker said:

The changes in the law are that they need to change it to allow SCs to be members as it specifies SCs can't join IIRC.  Once that's sorted out we'll be members.

Sounds relatively straightforward. Like I say, it’s been bandied around for years with little to no progress other than people “talking” about it. As we know, the job is good at “talking” but UK policing is reactive, not proactive. What will it take for a Special to be given the appropriate PPE measured against the increased threat to which is afforded to Regular officers? It doesn’t bear thinking about...

Whenever I’m crewed with a Special, I would also like them to be adequately equipped as I to deal with the situation in front of us. For my protection as well as their own. 
 

Frankly, how this matter has progressed and remains “ongoing” is disgusting. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by BizzieBee

[Beaker 817]

9 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

I don’t quite follow. I used to spend my expenses on Yorkie bars (with the raisins), lucozade, and 20 B&H Silver. 
They were my expenses. I spent them how I saw fit 😄. 
I’m not saying take it from source, but use it thereafter. 
 

Sounds relatively straightforward. Like I say, it’s been bandied around for years with little to no progress other than people “talking” about it. As we know, the job is good at “talking” but UK policing is reactive, not proactive. What will it take for a Special to be given the appropriate PPE measured against the increased threat to which is afforded to Regular officers? It doesn’t bear thinking about...

Whenever I’m crewed with a Special, I would also like them to be adequately equipped as I to deal with the situation in front of us. For my protection as well as their own. 
 

Frankly, how this matter has progressed and remains “ongoing” is disgusting. 

 

The rules around expenses restrict them to being used for travel expenses and food we eat on duty, or as a result of being on duty.  If we go further with them it becomes classed as Payment For Services.  Quite annoying. 

The change in law requires a parliamentary vote, as soon as they allow it we'll likely get a few through training and then let it rest until all the regs who want it are trained up.  My mind has been changed on it, I'd like another tool in the box, but IIRC the guidance says due to being an Aspie I'll not be considered. 

[BizzieBee 100]

2 hours ago, Beaker said:

The rules around expenses restrict them to being used for travel expenses and food we eat on duty, or as a result of being on duty.  If we go further with them it becomes classed as Payment For Services.  Quite annoying. 

 

I think I’m completely missing the point on this one. When I was a Special, I think I used to get around £200-£220 a month in expenses, which was the standard expense (£10.90? Ish?) plus mileage. That used to go into my account every month. 
What I did with that money was entirely down to me. 
The pro-rata Fed membership amount for Specials would be commensurate based on hours? 

Again, not taking from source. I guess what I’m saying is, Specials can afford it from the expenses as their own payment. 

 

2 hours ago, Beaker said:

The change in law requires a parliamentary vote, as soon as they allow it we'll likely get a few through training and then let it rest until all the regs who want it are trained up.

I get that Regs should have it first, but if we took that as the policy/procedure, then Specials would never get trained due to the turnover and uptake of regs. 
It is nothing short of disgusting that Specials aren’t being considered as being ‘worthy’ of consideration to carry necessary equipment that is provided to Regulars. Specials aren’t the ‘School Fete Police’ anymore, letting school kids try out cool police cars then hang up their boots. 

Around 5-6 years ago, only a few Regular officers had taser. Maybe even 1 per shift. Or sometimes less. So, yes! This wouldn’t be right (based on necessity, a bit like response courses). Now, most have it. But when Specials go out they do not have that protection. 
 

If Specials can carry CS/PAVA or, more importantly, a baton/Asp, they should be able to carry Taser. The very fact they can’t, and isn’t being progressed with any urgency whatsoever, is absolutely unfathomable and very worrying. 
 

Parliament should be ashamed. Well, for a lot of things, but this especially! 

Edited February 5, 2021 by BizzieBee

[Father Jack 253]

There seems to be some mystique built up around TASER. As a former qualified operator on the X26 model, I'd like to dispell some of this. TASER is an excellent tactical option. Whilst not infallible or appropriate for use in every incident, it does vastly increase the number of situations that officers can effectively respond to. 

Much like PAVA (I wasn't aware any forces still use CS) TASER is also considered a Section 5 firearm, for the purposes of legislation. Therefore, I do not know of any legal impediment that would prevent officers from carrying one. The only impediment would seem to be procedurally from the forces themselves. 

The suggestion that you need a certain level of experience to carry TASER is also nonsensical. The fact that MDP and CNC train all their initial recruits on TASER (as part of their AFO package during initial training) blows that argument out of the water. 

At the end of the day, this is just penny pinching BS, that will get some unfortunate officer killed, one of these days. Also one of the many reasons I would never consider applying to a Home Office force as a re joiner. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Father Jack
Clarity

[Sierra Lima + 117]

13 hours ago, BizzieBee said:

 

Around 5-6 years ago, only a few Regular officers had taser. Maybe even 1 per shift. Or sometimes less. So, yes! This wouldn’t be right (based on necessity, a bit like response courses). Now, most have it. But when Specials go out they do not have that protection. 
 

I don't know about other forces but in mine on response it's still one out of 4-5 PCs who is taser trained and no sign of training more. At least they've finally moved response to the X2, after everyone else of course.