Jump to content
×
×
  • Create New...

Arming all UK police - requirements?


Recommended Posts

ChristopherM

Just a thought, if the government decided to give firearms to all UK officers, would they need to adjust fitness/eyesight requirements as I'm sure a large proportion won't meet the current firearms standard?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 15
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • BlueBob

    2

  • Wilts20

    2

  • Zulu 22

    2

  • stewie_griffin

    2

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This is a misnomer, PSNI officers complete the required modules of the NPFTC to be classified as AFOs, however PSNI and COP do not want them to have AFO status. All police officers should be arme

I completely disagree with the routine arming of all officers. It is not necessary and not wanted and, that comes from someone who has been an AFO. I know too many officers who I would not even g

That's because they have not been trained yet. Many (most) police officer are able to master the complexities of putting a file together, driving at high speed, giving evidence in court or defend

BlueBob

Based on the info provided and some assumptions -No.
Oops, a brief answer to a wide and diverse question

Edited by BlueBob
Link to post
Share on other sites
Billy Blue Tac
37 minutes ago, ChristopherM said:

Just a thought, if the government decided to give firearms to all UK officers, would they need to adjust fitness/eyesight requirements as I'm sure a large proportion won't meet the current firearms standard?

If (and it's a humongous IF bordering on probably never) this happens, my guess is that it will be the initial recruitment criteria that gets changed to filter out those not meeting the minimum standards; not the fitness to carry tests - a bit like the military selection process.

Any such changes would need to be tapered and introduced over time to allow those not currently able or willing to carry to see out their service unarmed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ether

Just introduce a lesser course and arm as PSNI do for personal protection. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeebs
38 minutes ago, Ether said:

Just introduce a lesser course and arm as PSNI do for personal protection. 

This is a misnomer, PSNI officers complete the required modules of the NPFTC to be classified as AFOs, however PSNI and COP do not want them to have AFO status.

All police officers should be armed with side arms and a less lethal option, I.e. taser. Certain officers should also have access to long arms should the situation call for it, A la New Zealand.

All NZ cops are taser, sidearm and long arm trained out of their police college. However, they do not arm up unless instructed by a District Commander I think but don’t quote me on the actual rank. Their “Dog Squad” as they call it are on a standing authority and carry whilst on duty.

Arguably, if in NZ, one of the worlds safest countries, the police have ready access to firearms, then so should we.

I personally don’t agree with the NZ model as SOPs should have all officers carrying at all times. You can never discount the spontaneous requirement for lethal force. For me, if you carry a taser, you should carry a side arm.

Axon themselves advocate this approach and it makes sense, if taser fails, where do you go from there?

Too long have the powers that be relied on the notion of “Policing by Consent” and the traditional English “Bobby” with a tit hat and a wooden truncheon, in a woolly pulley and wool blend trousers. PPE just hasn’t moved with the times or threats faced by officers on daily basis. At some point, somebody needs to say, enough is enough.

 

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Wilts20

PolFed from last year:

Quote

The bigger question around routinely arming officers with guns in the UK is how it could further affect recruitment. Not everyone wants to carry a firearm and if you look at the percentages across the country there’s a very small percentage of officers authorised to carry and use one.

My concern is if we go down that road, it would be compulsory for officers to undertake firearms training and we would lose some strong candidates coming into the police service due to the 10 to 12 week Armed Response Vehicle course week being so physically and mentally demanding. There is however a shorter 4 to 5 week course for Authorised Firearms Officers (AFO’s) who undertake a non-emergency response role.

 

https://www.polfed.org/news-media/latest-news/2019/should-police-be-routinely-armed/

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dirty harry
25 minutes ago, Jeebs said:

This is a misnomer, PSNI officers complete the required modules of the NPFTC to be classified as AFOs, however PSNI and COP do not want them to have AFO status.

All police officers should be armed with side arms and a less lethal option, I.e. taser. Certain officers should also have access to long arms should the situation call for it, A la New Zealand.

All NZ cops are taser, sidearm and long arm trained out of their police college. However, they do not arm up unless instructed by a District Commander I think but don’t quote me on the actual rank. Their “Dog Squad” as they call it are on a standing authority and carry whilst on duty.

Arguably, if in NZ, one of the worlds safest countries, the police have ready access to firearms, then so should we.

I personally don’t agree with the NZ model as SOPs should have all officers carrying at all times. You can never discount the spontaneous requirement for lethal force. For me, if you carry a taser, you should carry a side arm.

Axon themselves advocate this approach and it makes sense, if taser fails, where do you go from there?

Too long have the powers that be relied on the notion of “Policing by Consent” and the traditional English “Bobby” with a tit hat and a wooden truncheon, in a woolly pulley and wool blend trousers. PPE just hasn’t moved with the times or threats faced by officers on daily basis. At some point, somebody needs to say, enough is enough.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ote2eC-ZvMk

Link to post
Share on other sites
Beaker

There is an issue with us lot with routine arming.  The great majority don't have the time to give up to train for a firearm, so we're out as Specials.  We could be reformed as a Reserve, but again there is the time issue. 

I think sidearms should be more common in uniform teams for those who want to carry, but I don't see a need for everyone to carry. 

I would like to see taser at 75% of officers though. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Zulu 22

I completely disagree with the routine arming of all officers. It is not necessary and not wanted and, that comes from someone who has been an AFO.

I know too many officers who I would not even give a Pea Shooter to.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
stewie_griffin
11 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

I completely disagree with the routine arming of all officers. It is not necessary and not wanted and, that comes from someone who has been an AFO.

I know too many officers who I would not even give a Pea Shooter to.

That's because they have not been trained yet.

Many (most) police officer are able to master the complexities of putting a file together, driving at high speed, giving evidence in court or defending themselves with a stick.

But shooting a gun is somehow a magic power that is only attainable by a select few?

I don't think so.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
TheMoo
1 hour ago, Jeebs said:

Too long have the powers that be relied on the notion of “Policing by Consent” and the traditional English “Bobby” with a tit hat and a wooden truncheon, in a woolly pulley and wool blend trousers. PPE just hasn’t moved with the times or threats faced by officers on daily basis. At some point, somebody needs to say, enough is enough.

 

So what you're saying is, we should develop a Rocket-Propelled Tit Hat?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wilts20

What about all the 'secondary' uniformed groups, like PCSOs, court officers, HMP and BF/customs? Surely they would have to be armed too, or not, as it is a more controlled environment?

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBob
18 hours ago, stewie_griffin said:

That's because they have not been trained yet.
Many (most) police officer are able to master the complexities of putting a file together, driving at high speed, giving evidence in court or defending themselves with a stick.
But shooting a gun is somehow a magic power that is only attainable by a select few?

I don't think so.

I quite agree that it is something we can be trained to do rather than an inmate ability given at birth.  I suppose the reluctance both by society and within the service is we probably know of quite a few officers who have passed various degrees of driving courses and yet feel they should be allowed near a set of keys - often they self-demonstrate their propensity towards inability or just push the boundaries beyond what they know are there - typically too fast for no good reason or popping out on blues for a cappuccino .
 I suppose  the same theme follows for other things, including weapons.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Zulu 22
5 hours ago, Wilts20 said:

What about all the 'secondary' uniformed groups, like PCSOs, court officers, HMP and BF/customs? Surely they would have to be armed too, or not, as it is a more controlled environment?

Because we are a society who do not have an ad hoc possession of firearms. Firearms possession is tightly controlled, but like everything they can get into the wrong hands. Sentences for illegal possession and use should be mandatory and severe.

You can teach a person to shoot but decision making is a different thing. As a fully rained AFO, make a mistake and you will be hung out to dry with no compassion offered.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Father Jack

Whilst I am personally in favour of all officers carrying a TASER and sidearm. Purely because it means that officers have the tactical options to deal with more challenging situations.

I can't see it happening, because it would take a Home Secretary  with an actual backbone, to admit what many already know. That the current approach to policing is no longer fit for purpose. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now