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Jack McCoy

Trying to de-escalate a situation - a lost art

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SimonT

Why would any officer be afraid of being challenged?

Have you been subject of a contentious complaint? 

I have. Many times. I have spent years waiting for the result. Unable to move on, even witness officers were prevented from moving to other departments. 

We should be subject to scrutiny, but the process is unpleasant, drawn out and entirely subjective. Officers end up in court, convicted and then everything is thrown out at appeal. Then it's on to the disciplary process. 

You ask why officers are reluctant to to get hands on. That's why.

Don't get hands on, no complaints. Maybe other officers get hurt, but that's not a complaint. 

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Jack McCoy
Author of the topic Posted
28 minutes ago, SimonT said:

Have you been subject of a contentious complaint? 

I have indeed, and it too was a lengthy process to before it got thrown out. But I never suffered any stress or anxiety about it because I knew my actions were beyond reproach. In the same way that people keep telling me 'you have so many issues with the job, you are obviously the problem' I could just as easily turn around and say 'anyone afraid of a complaint has obviously done something wrong and has reason to be afraid' but I know that good cops get complaints all the time and second-guess themselves, but for the life of me, I have never seen a good cop acting right get in trouble, NEVER, not once, but instead I have seen cops get away with TONS of stuff that should have cost them their job.

I reported an officer for accepting gratuity from a defence agent that was going to cross-examine him as a witness in a few weeks time and he wasn't disciplined. He then went on to tank the case and yet he's still in the job. The same guy has been out with the rest of the shift drinking and then drove his car home, yet everybody made excuses that he's 'a nice guy' and I was a grass for suggesting someone who was present should highlight this to supervision. 

I'm not the bad guy here, I just try to apply the same rules to everyone, regardless of rank, uniform or criminal history. If that makes me unsuitable for the job in most cops' eyes, then so be it, but I can tell you, when push comes to shove and things go to poop, I will have my conscious clean at the end of it.

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TheMoo
3 hours ago, Jack McCoy said:

If they could justify their actions what would they need to worry about? It's not like 99% of cops out there would ever take issue with them grabbing securely handcuffed prisoners by the throat and slamming them face down on the ground.

...

Most posters on here seem to gladly accept thuggery as part and parcel of wearing the uniform, so if this is in any way representative of the average shift, it's me that ought to be afraid of voicing my concerns since having any form of moral backbone gets you labelled all sorts of derogatory epithets. 

I've been trying to keep my gob shut reading this thread, but a few of the other commenter have suggested:

1)direct challenges to the officers 

2) reports to supervision

3) reports to Professional Standards. 

I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't voice concerns, just that you shouldn't try to use an Internet forum to do it. 

From what you've written, the offences you've been aware of/witness to include; Common Assault by Beating, False Imprisonment, Perjury, Perverting the Course of Justice, Bribery and Misconduct in Public Office. And, the entire supervision is doing nothing. 

Why aren't you raising these issues that you've raised with either your Professional Standards, or the IOPC?

Genuinely asking this, because none of the cops that I know would want anyone like you've described, on their team. 

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Jack McCoy
Author of the topic Posted
7 hours ago, TheMoo said:

1)direct challenges to the officers 

2) reports to supervision

3) reports to Professional Standards. 

1) done

2) done

3) how can I when I seem to be the only one on the shift that has an issue? just look at all the grief I'm getting on here, from absolute strangers when I so much as dare to suggest grabbing a handcuffed prisoner by the throat is wrong

None of you here have seen the BWV for these yet you sit there so comfortably telling me how wrong I am. Well me excuse me for not wanting to commit professional suicide and we labelled as a 'grass' by the entire organisation. Do NONE of you get it? I WANT TO LEAVE THIS DAMN PLACE so that I don't have to put up with all of this because it's clear no one who CAN do something about it is doing anything about it and that's what's frustrating me the most!

7 hours ago, TheMoo said:

From what you've written, the offences you've been aware of/witness to include; Common Assault by Beating, False Imprisonment, Perjury, Perverting the Course of Justice, Bribery and Misconduct in Public Office. And, the entire supervision is doing nothing. 

Exactly! I reported the bribery and NOTHING was done! The guy went on to throw a case and he's still in the job! This was in Scotland and down here in England, cops are smashing up cars when in marked vehicles, not reporting it, denying any culpability when proven to be responsible and are also STILL in the F*****G job!

I raise all these concerns time and time again and it's the same story "cops don't report on cops"... 

7 hours ago, TheMoo said:

Genuinely asking this, because none of the cops that I know would want anyone like you've described, on their team.

rubbish. You all say that, but when it's your mate, you make all the usual excuses, forget all about it and go for another pint over rest days and brag about how funny it was when your rag-dolled someone. Every single night out I've been on with cops, it's always the same story, the popular people on the shift get away with murder, leaving the rest of us with a conscience to sit there in disbelief and dismay.

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Zulu 22

From reading all of your posts I have serious doubts that you are a Police Officer. There is no way that the cases that you have quoted would not have been investigated and action taken. Many Police Officers have arrested other Police Officers for criminal conduct and, as I have found, are supported by their colleagues for doing so.

I fail to see how any of your, alleged incidents, would not have been dealt with. 

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TheMoo
6 hours ago, Jack McCoy said:

1) done

2) done

3) how can I when I seem to be the only one on the shift that has an issue? just look at all the grief I'm getting on here, from absolute strangers when I so much as dare to suggest grabbing a handcuffed prisoner by the throat is wrong

None of you here have seen the BWV for these yet you sit there so comfortably telling me how wrong I am. Well me excuse me for not wanting to commit professional suicide and we labelled as a 'grass' by the entire organisation. Do NONE of you get it? I WANT TO LEAVE THIS DAMN PLACE so that I don't have to put up with all of this because it's clear no one who CAN do something about it is doing anything about it and that's what's frustrating me the most!

Exactly! I reported the bribery and NOTHING was done! The guy went on to throw a case and he's still in the job! This was in Scotland and down here in England, cops are smashing up cars when in marked vehicles, not reporting it, denying any culpability when proven to be responsible and are also STILL in the F*****G job!

I raise all these concerns time and time again and it's the same story "cops don't report on cops"... 

rubbish. You all say that, but when it's your mate, you make all the usual excuses, forget all about it and go for another pint over rest days and brag about how funny it was when your rag-dolled someone. Every single night out I've been on with cops, it's always the same story, the popular people on the shift get away with murder, leaving the rest of us with a conscience to sit there in disbelief and dismay.

Professional Standards have anonymous reporting lines, they have access to notebooks and BodyWorn Video, and they operate force-wide rather than at an individual shift level. I suspect that IOPC have similar powers/arrangements.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm a little incredulous at the claims (perverting the course of justice, risking prison, for tickets to the Scottish FA Cup?) but this line of work has opened my eyes to all sorts in life (for better and worse). And, as some would say, A-B-C. 

As regards for committing 'professional suicide', if you are so desperate to leave the force, then why do you care? If the corruption is as pervasive as you claim, across both Police Scotland and your new English force - are you sure it won't be the same in your next force? Are you sure you can align your morality to working alongside such thuggery? 

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Jack McCoy
Author of the topic Posted
3 hours ago, TheMoo said:

Professional Standards have anonymous reporting lines, they have access to notebooks and BodyWorn Video, and they operate force-wide rather than at an individual shift level. I suspect that IOPC have similar powers/arrangements.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm a little incredulous at the claims (perverting the course of justice, risking prison, for tickets to the Scottish FA Cup?) but this line of work has opened my eyes to all sorts in life (for better and worse). And, as some would say, A-B-C. 

As regards for committing 'professional suicide', if you are so desperate to leave the force, then why do you care? If the corruption is as pervasive as you claim, across both Police Scotland and your new English force - are you sure it won't be the same in your next force? Are you sure you can align your morality to working alongside such thuggery? 

You 're absolutely right. I will report these matters directly to Professional Standards, come what may. I honestly don't expect anything to action to be taken, but at least I know I've done my bit and I can know for fact that my choice to leave this current force is the right one. 

PS

I genuinely appreciate your input. You have actually discussed the matter in a civil manner as opposed to some of the childish attempts and straight up ad hominems from other posters. 

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stewie_griffin
15 hours ago, Jack McCoy said:

...

None of you here have seen the BWV for these yet you sit there so comfortably telling me how wrong I am. Well me excuse me for not wanting to commit professional suicide and we labelled as a 'grass' by the entire organisation. Do NONE of you get it? I WANT TO LEAVE THIS DAMN PLACE so that I don't have to put up with all of this because it's clear no one who CAN do something about it is doing anything about it and that's what's frustrating me the most!

... I reported the bribery and NOTHING was done! The guy went on to throw a case and he's still in the job! This was in Scotland and down here in England, cops are smashing up cars when in marked vehicles, not reporting it, denying any culpability when proven to be responsible and are also STILL in the F*****G job!

I raise all these concerns time and time again and it's the same story "cops don't report on cops"... 

rubbish. You all say that, but when it's your mate, you make all the usual excuses, forget all about it and go for another pint over rest days and brag about how funny it was when your rag-dolled someone. Every single night out I've been on with cops, it's always the same story, the popular people on the shift get away with murder, leaving the rest of us with a conscience to sit there in disbelief and dismay.

Lots going on here Jack. You need to take a breath.

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Billy Blue Tac

@Jack McCoyI'm not sure if life is unjustly victimising you, or you're just one of life's victims. Either way you do not seem happy with your lot.

Don't let feelings of isolation, exclusion and injustice fester.  They have a habit of affecting one's mental health, relationships and job prospects - something to bear in mind as you consider your next career move.
 

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