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Police officer is charged with murder over death of ex-footballer Dalian Atkinson who died after being Tasered outside his father's house aged 48

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PC Wannabe
On 08/11/2019 at 18:17, Sceptre said:

There have been cases of people being charged with wounding with intent to cause GBH rather than attempted murder because of the difficulty proving intent to kill, but I don't know of any examples of what you describe which clearly would fit the definition of murder. Potentially you might have come across examples where a charge of murder can be reduced to voluntary manslaughter for various reasons such as loss of control or diminished responsibility, or examples where both charges were preferred but neither succeeded such as the killing of Yousef Makki.

I've heard several police officers remark that attempted murder is more difficult to prove than actual murder. I was unaware though, that a murder charge requires proof of intent to cause GBH, I genuinely believed that it required proof of intent to cause death - I'm not sure where I heard that, but as I say, it's no surprise that I believed it as I've heard/read of that many people who have perpetrated crimes like stabbings getting off with 'manslaughter' as opposed to murder. If a charge of murder only requires proof on intent to cause GBH (as opposed to death) then all perpetrators of fatal stabbings should be being done for murder. It sounds like pathetic bargaining by the CPS, but I guess that's hardly a surprise.

@Zulu 22 - Your overuse of 'confused' emojis comes across a very childish, considering you claim to be a retired police inspector. 

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Zulu 22
10 minutes ago, PC Wannabe said:

I've heard several police officers remark that attempted murder is more difficult to prove than actual murder. I was unaware though, that a murder charge requires proof of intent to cause GBH, I genuinely believed that it required proof of intent to cause death - I'm not sure where I heard that, but as I say, it's no surprise that I believed it as I've heard/read of that many people who have perpetrated crimes like stabbings getting off with 'manslaughter' as opposed to murder. If a charge of murder only requires proof on intent to cause GBH (as opposed to death) then all perpetrators of fatal stabbings should be being done for murder. It sounds like pathetic bargaining by the CPS, but I guess that's hardly a surprise.

@Zulu 22 - Your overuse of 'confused' emojis comes across a very childish, considering you claim to be a retired police inspector. 

I use the confused emoji  as I marvel at your naivety in espousing something you have little knowledge of. Oh and I do not claim to be a retired Inspector, I earned that right the hard way.😙😆

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PC Wannabe
42 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

I use the confused emoji  as I marvel at your naivety in espousing something you have little knowledge of. Oh and I do not claim to be a retired Inspector, I earned that right the hard way.😙😆

You use it continuously on everyone (particularly on the 'brexit' thread), not just myself. People have pulled you up on it many times. Yes I was misinformed and happily stand corrected on something, but then not all of us have such an enormous ego as yourself. 

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Sir Penguin

Let’s keep this to topic. Issues with each other can be raised over direct message 👍🏽

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gallifrey

Good to see the lack of support from the chief Constable his thoughts should be with his officers. 

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Zulu 22

Nothing like being thrown to the wolves for doing your duty. Taser has dangers everyone from the Chief down knows this. But they still expect you to use it.

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IrateShrike
9 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Nothing like being thrown to the wolves for doing your duty. Taser has dangers everyone from the Chief down knows this. But they still expect you to use it.

As I said earlier, there is so little established fact in the public domain around this case.  There may be no evidence at all that the Taser was a factor in the death.

Edited by IrateShrike

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Billy Blue Tac
19 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Nothing like being thrown to the wolves for doing your duty. Taser has dangers everyone from the Chief down knows this. But they still expect you to use it.

This appears to be yet another example of sensationalist, and sloppy, reporting by the main stream media.

If they deigned to do a bit of research they would have found this from the horse's mouth:

"The investigation gathered evidence which indicates that police contact with Mr Atkinson involved the use of a Taser, followed by a period of restraint and other uses of force." 

https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/dalian-atkinson-file-evidence-referred-crown-prosecution-service

There is always more to these things than meets the eye.

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Reasonable Man
2 hours ago, Billy Blue Tac said:

This appears to be yet another example of sensationalist, and sloppy, reporting by the main stream media.

If they deigned to do a bit of research they would have found this from the horse's mouth:

"The investigation gathered evidence which indicates that police contact with Mr Atkinson involved the use of a Taser, followed by a period of restraint and other uses of force." 

https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/dalian-atkinson-file-evidence-referred-crown-prosecution-service

There is always more to these things than meets the eye.

Thanks for this, Billy. It goes to explain some of the delay as well - in October 2018 a report from a pathologist was still awaited. 

As you say, lazy (or perhaps sensationalist) journalisms. The headline could have equally have said, ‘Cops face murder charge after use of police car’ as they used a car to get to the scene. 

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