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JuryMan

3d / domed registration / number plates

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JuryMan

Afternoon all.

Thoughts on gel numberplates please? Specifically gel on acrylic - not metal pressed plates (which I believe would fail BD145d if nothing else for the bend test requirements, but that's another topic).

An example of the plates, listed as 'road legal' is here: https://www.utopiaplates.co.uk/

From the side, those advertised as '4d' with the high stencil are extremely difficult to read as one letter obscures the next. I've scoured the law and standards to the best of my ability, but cannot find anything specific about it. Reference is made to  'characters on a numberplate can be 3d' (https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/rules-number-plates) but I have a feeling the 'spirit' of that is the 3d style, but still flat, lettering.

Advice please? Thanks!

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BlueBob

Do the number plates conform and marked as complying with the standard?   If yes, then your example is okay.    Your example website says legal but doesn’t say confirms and mark to BS    That probably tells the answer

As far as 3D goes, I thought it was 3D effect rather than being raised, but again it’s looking at the standard.  

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Richhamdo
1 hour ago, JuryMan said:

Afternoon all.

Thoughts on gel numberplates please? Specifically gel on acrylic - not metal pressed plates (which I believe would fail BD145d if nothing else for the bend test requirements, but that's another topic).

An example of the plates, listed as 'road legal' is here: https://www.utopiaplates.co.uk/

From the side, those advertised as '4d' with the high stencil are extremely difficult to read as one letter obscures the next. I've scoured the law and standards to the best of my ability, but cannot find anything specific about it. Reference is made to  'characters on a numberplate can be 3d' (https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/rules-number-plates) but I have a feeling the 'spirit' of that is the 3d style, but still flat, lettering.

Advice please? Thanks!

@JuryMan, I retired from the specials about three years ago so cant give you any advice, only some of my observations about reg marks on motor vehicles from my time on patrol with the regs  etc. .  As I'm sure you are aware from your researches,  the reg marks “must be easily distinguishable” when displayed on motor vehicles used on a road. I had a quick look at the site of Utopia plates [as above] as i had never heard of these plates, what will they think of next.  The font they use appears to be the Charles Wright standard font as you would expect from a reputable  company .  You suggest they can be extremely difficult to read from the side, but at what angle to the front/back were you when you read it. The angle  and position to read the plate is actually written down somewhere because i recall reading it in the dim and distant past . I cant find it now on the net although I'm not as good as some people at it. I must have seen this diagram in the personal hand book of one of our traffic officers one night while i was waiting for him to finish some paperwork. As I recall It was of a diagram of a car near a pavement with distances and angles of the person viewing the plate if you see what i mean. Maybe one of our traffic personnel could come in with the latest up to date thinking on visibility etc  because I'm going back a bit with this. 

I guess at some time in the past someone must have taken issue in court as to when a plate was easily distinguishable and when it wasn't, who knows. I will maybe have another look in the con and use regs sometime. My feeling is they are ok , in fact I'm sure they are otherwise they wouldn't be saying they are legal, also the cameras would soon start complaining that they couldn't read the plate.

 Its the motorists who drive about with dirty plates and who move the letters and numbers about etc to look trendy who need suitable  advice. 

I must say that over the last few years i have noticed fewer and fewer vehicles where the plates don't comply with the regulations. To me they stick out like a sore thumb when i see them on the road.  I used to see an old M reg car regularly with black and white plates a few years ago who was clearly pushing his luck.  I Suppose the keeper must have had a proper set to put on for the mot. Anyway i hope you find the answer you are looking for. Rich. Ps, sorry for waffling on, i tend to get a bit carried away, ha. 

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Sir Penguin

Any advice on a specific area of law is from either currently-serving UK police officers, and is offered to the best of their ability, or from members of the public who are perhaps aspiring to be serving police officers and may not hold the necessary level of knowledge to provide such assistance or by any other member who may offer their opinion. Either way such advice can only be treated as an opinion and nothing more. Members should look for the Verified Members Badge that appears on the posters name as advice from members holding this badge are verified police employees. The information is based on their own individual experiences, expertise and training. It is stressed, however, that if any information or advice found in these forums is used by any person or organisation, then the respective police officer(s) and staff can not and will not take any responsibility for any outcome in any investigation in a criminal or civil enquiry. Any advice or opinion offered is to the best of the individuals knowledge and ability based on the information you have supplied, and we will stress that we will never be knowingly misleading or untruthful in content.

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JuryMan

Thank you for your replies.

I am a serving officer (although not Roads Policing) and trying to find an exact answer to this. 

You’re quite right - there is distance and angle requirements :

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/pdfs/uksi_20010561_en.pdf

“relevant area” is what’s referenced and it would be ideal to test this with one of these plates. 

I see “gel” style plates frequently and yes, they are in the correct font. I believe the “intention” of the 3d element that’s referenced in the regulations refers to the font effect rather than actual 3d physical letters, but is being used in this context now. 

There doesn’t appear to be any clear guidance on it. I am working with RPU this weekend on a specialist operation and will certainly discuss it with them then and see how they view it. 

Thanks again for your inputs :)

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BlueBob

When you physically see one - does it have the bs marking?  It is a requirement.   I’d bet they aren’t.  You could always be proactive and ring the company and ask -do they comply and are they marked.   We are not limited to only dealing with drivers on the road

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Beaker
59 minutes ago, BlueBob said:

When you physically see one - does it have the bs marking?  It is a requirement.   I’d bet they aren’t.  You could always be proactive and ring the company and ask -do they comply and are they marked.   We are not limited to only dealing with drivers on the road

I've seen a few, they seem to be popular with the Corsaboys round here.  Not seen any BS markings on them.

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BlueBob

Looks like that is the answer then!! Let’s see if OP does speak to the suppliers?

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Richhamdo
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BlueBob said:

Looks like that is the answer then!! Let’s see if OP does speak to the suppliers?

@BlueBob, i had a quick look at their website just now , the ones i saw displayed on various cars looked ok from what i could make out.  There was one on a blue Audi. They had the name of the firm, i think it said UtopiaTints and their postcode ,it was difficult to see  [they are up in County Durham somewhere], in small print at the bottom of the plate in the middle, and towards the right corner what looked like  the current standard. I did need a magnifying glass to see it though but it looked the same as on my car.

Incidentally they   also make what they call ‘show plates”which as the name suggests wouldn't make the cut and not intended to do so. This type is i suppose what we are talking about here and what some owners driving on a ‘road’ are trying to get away, to make their vehicle look as cool as possible presumably . 

Maybe its the case they getting  a bit muddled up with the legal requirements regarding the display  of plates on their vehicles,[ used on a  “road”]. I would be asking the owner of the vehicle or whoever  [if i was still in the specials]if the company they bought the plates from had made it clear to them that they were not for use on a road [as defined]and that they weren't the standard specs etc,etc. 

I must say from my experience  even though these drivers plead total  innocence and butter probably wouldn't melt in their mouth when you speak to them, i strongly suspected they knew perfectly well they were in the wrong, especially the ones who had muddy plates which deliberately hadn't been cleaned for ages.  Rich.

 

Edited by Richhamdo
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Beaker
3 hours ago, BlueBob said:

Looks like that is the answer then!! Let’s see if OP does speak to the suppliers?

 

For clarity I've not had to deal with any on duty, it is my work carpark.  A lot of kids with tricked out Corsa, Fiesta and 108s like them.  I'd normally be looking to VDRS them if they've never been spoken to about it before anyway.  Though last time I tried to use a VDRS they were such tools they ended up with a ticket instead.  Some people don't know when you're doing them a favour.

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JuryMan
19 hours ago, Beaker said:

 

For clarity I've not had to deal with any on duty, it is my work carpark.  A lot of kids with tricked out Corsa, Fiesta and 108s like them.  I'd normally be looking to VDRS them if they've never been spoken to about it before anyway.  Though last time I tried to use a VDRS they were such tools they ended up with a ticket instead.  Some people don't know when you're doing them a favour.

A VDRS can sometimes be more painful for the recipient given the hoops you need to jump through - but I completely agree either are worse than 'words of advice'!

I'll speak to the RPU buys as I say on Sunday and get their view - but if they're marked as conforming (even when they're not, as I've seen on other plates in the past) then it's deffo fishy and needs pushing a bit further.

Cheers for all the replies :)

 

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BlueBob

For some reason I thought VDRS did not apply to licensing and registration offences as the MOT centre do not check it as a pass fail as part of the MOT.   Even as I typed, I did a quick check of the MOT testers manual https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-0-Identification-of-the-vehicle.html#section_0.1 and it specifically says that they do not need to check things like the BS number.  so, IMHO, VDRS for No plates is a waste of time - words of advice or ticket and keeps it simple.

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Richhamdo
2 hours ago, BlueBob said:

For some reason I thought VDRS did not apply to licensing and registration offences as the MOT centre do not check it as a pass fail as part of the MOT.   Even as I typed, I did a quick check of the MOT testers manual https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-0-Identification-of-the-vehicle.html#section_0.1 and it specifically says that they do not need to check things like the BS number.  so, IMHO, VDRS for No plates is a waste of time - words of advice or ticket and keeps it simple.

@BlueBob thanks for posting that link, i learned something new as a result of reading it. . I hadnt realised up till i read it that you could have black and white plates on a vehicle forty years old [1979.] I looked up why that was the case as  I had always believed “ L “was the last reg you could have ie  1st jan 73. Now i suppose it must be up to T  or maybe even V. Not that  many will be about or will ever  concern me. 

As you will probably know the historic vehicle forty year dispensation allows it providing they are registered as such of course. I knew these cars were exempt from tax as i had an old work mate who had been doing up an old morris 1000, [for at least ten years, he was looking forward to driving it tax free]  but i hadn't known the bit about the black and white plates [if the owner wanted to put them on that is]  Nobody told me, just like they didn't tell me they had done away with the word ‘cheat’ in one of the definitions years ago. @Chewy soon put me right on it 😀.Rich. 

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BlueBob

we've seen a number of posts here on No plates and dealing with it via VDRS and today I happened to find a quick reference that confirmed my reasoning why not to use it.  I know some have issued VDRS for it but tat seems just a waste of time for everyone.  Not least because if they fail to get it sorted, its not really worth reverting ti summons

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