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Chief Bakes

Evening standard.Metal detectors deployed in central London as police step up knife crime blitz THREADS MERGED

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Chief Bakes
  • 4 March 2019
Yousef Makki and Jodie Chesney
Image caption Yousef Makki and Jodie Chesney, both 17, were killed in separate knife attacks two days apart

The home secretary is to chair a meeting of police chiefs to combat the "senseless violence" that has seen a rise in the number of teenagers being stabbed to death across the UK.

Sajid Javid said: "Young people are being murdered across the country, it can't go on."

He spoke after the murders of a 17-year-old London girl and a boy, 17, in Greater Manchester, at the weekend.

New figures have suggested a 93% increase in children being stabbed.

The Home Office said Mr Javid will chair the second chief constables' round table on Wednesday, aimed at sharing experience and policing strategies for tackling violent crime.

Mr Javid said: "We're taking action on many fronts... It is vital that we unite to stop this senseless violence."

On Saturday evening, Yousef Ghaleb Makki, from Burnage, was stabbed to death in the village of Hale Barns, near Altrincham.

Two boys, also aged 17, have been arrested on suspicion of murder and remain in police custody.

Image copyright PA
Image caption Yousef was murdered in Hale Barns, a quiet suburb where many top-flight footballers live

Yousef's death came a day after Jodie Chesney was killed in a knife attack in an east London park on Friday night.

The teenager was stabbed in the back as she played music with five friends in a park, the Metropolitan Police said.

Officers say Jodie's attacker was a black male in his late teens but gave no further details. There are no descriptions of a second suspect.

Jodie's family branded it a "totally random and unprovoked attack".

Image copyright PA
Image caption The playground where Jodie was found is called Amy's Play Site

The teenagers' deaths follow the deaths of three others three teenagers dying in knife attacks in two weeks in Birmingham, causing West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner David Jamieson to brand the situation a "national emergency".

Hazrat Umar, 17, was killed in Bordesley Green on Monday; Abdullah Muhammad, 16, died in Small Heath the previous week, and seven days earlier Sidali Mohamed, 16, was stabbed outside a college in Highgate.

Meanwhile, figures from an investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches programme suggest the number of children and young people linked to murders and manslaughters using knives has risen by more than 75% over three years.

Image caption Sajid Javid said the home office is taking action on 'many fronts'

The number of police-recorded offenders aged under 18 committing homicides using a knife or sharp instrument rose by 77% from 26 to 46 from 2016 to 2018, the programme found after analysing Freedom of Information request responses from 29 out of 43 police forces.

Dispatches also found there has been a 93% rise in the number of children aged 16 and under being treated for stab wounds in England.

The Home Office said it set out a range of actions to tackle violent crime in October.

They include a £200m youth endowment fund; consultation on a on new legal duty to underpin a public health approach to tackling serious violence, and an independent review of drug misuse.

It said an extra £970m in police funding is proposed for 2019-20 and added that the offensive weapons bill currently before Parliament will introduce new offences to tackle knife crime and acid attacks.

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SimonT

If only we could identify someone in charge who could do something about it 

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Cathedral Bobby

And what's not mentioned? Banging heads in the judiciary to ensure they give a custodial sentence to anyone found carrying a bladed weapon.

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obsidian_eclipse

The weird thing is, with all the laws we have and the possible punishments available, with one simple change to enforcing/sentencing we could lock up half the country for 5 years or so. This isn't a disirable prospect of course, but there simply isn't the will and neither the capacity to lock up the numbers who carry weapons intending harm.

 

 

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Cathedral Bobby
Just now, obsidian_eclipse said:

The weird thing is, with all the laws we have and the possible punishments available, with one simple change to sentencing we could lock up half the country for 5 years or so. This isn't a disirable prospect of course, but there simply isn't the will and neither the capacity to lock up the numbers who carry weapons intending harm.

But if we hammered those who do, making them pay financially through FPNs for minor offenses, PACE 1s, hopefully many wouldn't carry. However, those who do must know they are going to prison. Not harassment but hard targeting these lawless young people.

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Chief Bakes

Knife crime: 'Tsar' needed to stop stabbings, says ex-Met chief

  • 4 March 2019
Lord Hogan-Howe Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption Lord Hogan-Howe led London's police force from 2011 to 2017

A knife crime tsar must be appointed by government in order to "get a grip" on the rise in youth violence, a former Metropolitan Police commissioner says.

Lord Hogan-Howe said a 93% rise in the number of under-16s stabbed over five years was a "terrifying statistic" and "something has to change".

It comes after two 17-year-olds were killed in separate incidents in London and Greater Manchester at the weekend.

The home secretary will meet police chiefs this week to discuss the issue.

Sajid Javid condemned the "senseless violence", saying: "Young people are being murdered across the country, it can't go on."

NHS data shows that the number of children aged 16 and under treated for stab wounds in England rose from 180 in 2012-13 to 347 in 2017-18.

Lord Hogan-Howe - who led the Met from 2011 to 2017 - said a tsar should be put in charge of how money is spent to tackle knife crime, rather than individual police forces - especially when it comes to officer recruitment.

"I'd want to know, week after week, when are you recruiting them? When do they they arrive? When do they get trained? And when do they hit the streets?" he told the BBC.

"You want to know day-by-day what's going to get delivered. And I don't get that sense of grip.

"If it's not treated as a crisis, it will take another two years before we see action."

Tsars are unelected independent advisers to the government who help to shape policy on a range of issues from drug misuse to how to reinvigorate the high street.

Image caption Yousef Makki and Jodie Chesney, both 17, were killed in separate knife attacks two days apart

On Saturday evening, Yousef Ghaleb Makki, from Burnage, was stabbed to death in the village of Hale Barns, near Altrincham.

Two boys, also aged 17, have been arrested on suspicion of murder and remain in police custody.

Yousef's death came a day after Jodie Chesney was killed in a knife attack in an east London park as she played music with friends.

Officers say Jodie's attacker was a black male in his late teens but gave no further details. There are no descriptions of a second suspect.

Jodie's family branded it a "totally random and unprovoked attack".

Next steps

Lord Hogan-Howe said the government and police also needed to:

  • Tackle the supply of cocaine to the UK from Colombia and Mexico. As the supply has increased and the price has dropped, violence between dealers has intensified, he said
  • Deter young people from carrying knives. Too many are worried about being caught without a knife, not with one, he said, and the police need better technology than knife-detecting wands and arches to detect them
  • Combat deprivation, which he said was a common factor in knife crime across the country
Image copyright PA
Image caption Jodie Chesney was killed in a children's play park

The killings at the weekend follow the deaths of three other teenagers in knife attacks in Birmingham in two weeks, prompting West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner David Jamieson to brand the situation a "national emergency".

Hazrat Umar, 17, was killed in Bordesley Green on Monday; Abdullah Muhammad, 16, died in Small Heath the previous week, and seven days earlier Sidali Mohamed, 16, was stabbed outside a college in Highgate.

Meanwhile, figures from an investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches programme suggest the number of children and young people in England and Wales linked to murders and manslaughters using knives has risen by more than 75% over three years.

The number of police-recorded offenders aged under 18 rose from 26 to 46 between 2016 and 2018, the programme found.

In 2017/18 there were 59 homicides (which includes murder and culpable homicide) in Scotland. A sharp instrument was the main method of killing in 34 of those.

The Home Office said it set out a range of actions to tackle violent crime in October, including a £200m youth endowment fund and a consultation on a new legal duty to treat serious violence as a public health issue.

An extra £970m in police funding is also proposed for 2019-20 and the Offensive Weapons Bill, currently before Parliament, will introduce new offences to tackle knife crime and acid attacks.

Home Office minister Victoria Atkins told BBC Radio 4's Today programme said a week of national action in February took 9,000 knives from the streets and saw more than 1,000 arrests.

She said the #knifefree campaign aimed to make the point "that the overwhelming majority of young people do not carry knives".

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David

The symptoms may be broad but the cure is fairly simple. We don't need another Czar, on an over-inflated salary or not.

The answer is right under our noses and always has been. Tell the do-gooding liberals to 'belt up' snd bring back an atmosphere which will allow the police can get back to robust policing without fearing a court case where a poor misunderstood prominent nominal puts in a complaint that an officer told him to be 'shut up' or was pushed back bodily. Tell out-of-touch politicians that stop and search works and that they, along with the media, should be supporting the police in their role, Mr Sadiq Khan.

Then, when found guilty, tell and support the courts to impose a meaningful sentence and to ignore Youth Offending Teams fighting to keep the little cherubs (who as like as not have had their fifth court appearance) out of prison.

Stop pussyfoorting about and making sincere-sounding speeches while you wring hands saying isn't this awful, and damn well get on with it.

But then I've been saying this for decades, though not being educated or nothing, who's going to listen to me?

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obsidian_eclipse

I'd say we are very good at catching people with knives or other improvised methods of stabbing people. The issue is they are often back on the street before the signature on the statement dries. The police have been doing their job, however it appears time and time again there is no consequence.

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ParochialYokal

Let’s look at this objectively- something happened where we reduced crime (especially violent crime) to unprecedented low levels. Fact.

 

And now violent crime has shot up. Fact.

 

So between those two points in time, what happened? Austerity. Fact

 

- Funding has been cut to the police and the extended police family, so there is less of an omnipresence on the streets. There is less chance of getting caught, which encourages a sense of ‘being able to get away with it’.

- Funding to Youth Offending Teams has been cut, so they have less resources to allocate on young offenders to prevent them reoffending.

- Funding has been cut to youth crime prevention, so there are limited or no resources to allocate to working with young people at risk of offending.

- Funding to spend on people with special educational needs has been cut, so there is less resource to support managing behaviour in mainstream schools leading to more young people getting excluded and becoming vulnerable to committing crime.

- Funding to support parenting has been cut, so that interventions to support better parenting no longer really exist.

- Funding to support challenged families has been cut, so that ASB families are left to run amok.

- The NHS has come under increased pressure- both in terms of funding cuts but also as a result of less funding getting allocated to mental health. The consequence (without wishing to stigmatise people with MH issues) is that there are more people on the streets where there are concerns about ‘risk management’.

- The employment market has changed, whereby worker’s rights have been eroded. The introduction of zero hours contracts and 24/7 working means poorer parents are working shift patterns that they don’t have control over, so they cannot supervise their children properly.

- Benefits have changed, so that families are not supported in the right way to get work. The impact has left some parents feel a sense of hopelessness that is projected onto their children.

- The nature of social housing and benefits has changed to the extent that many socially deprived people live in temporary accommodated that is cramped and inadequate. The reality is that the parent(s) has/have no objections to teenage siblings going out to socialise on the streets.

- Offending has moved beyond being analogue and had become digital. Social media is being used as a recruiting platform to glamorise gang related behaviour and to recruit gullible young people.

- Digital channels of communication enable and stoke conflict that ‘quantum leaps’ from the online world, where it is facilitated by taps on a keyboard, into the real world, where it is facilitated by thrusts of a knife.

 

Quiet frankly, a number of factors have conspired to cause the problems we have.

 

It is laughable to suggest that this is the fault of ‘do gooding liberals’ or the solution can be found exclusively in deterrent sentencing applied to young people who are cognitively distorted to think that they will never get caught and whom have no sense of hope anyway.

 

Anyone who blames liberals and denies the role of the austerity in this is the type of person who was successfully hoodwinked by the Tories.

 

There is a very real level of nuance here.

 

Austerity has been a mammoth failure. Whilst we absolutely needed to tighten our belts, we are now experiencing the social consequences of the failed economic experiment that was premises on the lie that as needed to tighten our belts both so drastically and so quickly.

 

 

 

 

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David

...and there you go. Let's excuse it all being down to not having enough money that makes people pick up knives and stab people!

I don't think anyone can doubt austerity hasn't had its impact - cuts to policing not least, but it's not the police's fault if courts don't sentence these criminals. We can, however, blame certain liberal factions in society who try their utmost to keep the young out of jail so as not to criminalise them, which kind of overlooks the fact these young people are in fact - well, criminals. And we can blame politicians for screaming about the injustices of stop and search.

Fine, let's accept austerity is part of those symptoms as I've acknowledged. But let's stop making excuses with it. You get caught carrying a knife for no good reason (already provided for in law) and  you'e going to prison for a substantial period. Lack of money is no excuse, There can be none, because there are none.

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Mac7
And what's not mentioned? Banging heads in the judiciary to ensure they give a custodial sentence to anyone found carrying a bladed weapon.

 

 

Do you think increasing sentences would be part way of solving the problem? I used to think so but now I’m not so sure. The US has some of the most stringent sentences in the world yet their jails are full.

 

I’m not sure increasing the sentences is a deterrent to habitual knife carriers. It may be to some, but doing time to gang members could be seen as a right of passage or kudos.

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David

@Mac7 - the effectiveness in that train of thought is debatable, though at the same time, all the while they are in jail, everyone else on the outside is safe.

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Zulu 22

Austerity is a left wing excuse but,  who was the cause of austerity being essential. The fact is that drug dealers and other criminaks criminals are greedy. They want more money and are not concerned how they get it. There was a release of statistics last week indicating that there were 97,000 failures that did not have a single member who had ever worked. They exist on benefits and crime, nothing to do with austerity.  It is an unpalatable fact that bleeding heart liberals make excuses. There are some people, sadly, who can only be stopped by harsh prison sentences.

It is a fact that prison is there to protect the public. Austerity has brought about a reduction in Police numbers but the problems with crime and criminals has been escalating for 20 plus years.

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ParochialYokal
...and there you go. Let's excuse it all being down to not having enough money that makes people pick up knives and stab people!

 It’s not about money being in the pocket of the socially deprived but about there being no resources in the public sector to fund intervention.  

I am struggling to see the chronology of when the following article was published but I maintain that my post above was drafted in advance of the following Guardian article being published:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/04/knife-boosted-by-toxic-mix-of-cuts-to-police-and-youth-services

 

Clearly, austerity was toxic. This all lends itself to a persuasive argument about what role austerity has to blame.

 

 

Either way, some may suggest that you need to present a more cogent, credible and congruent argument as to why you are not a prime example of the gullible masses who condemn ‘the Liberals’ for the consequences of austerity.

 

 

 

 

 

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Zulu 22

According to Mrs May there is no corelation between an increase in knife crime and the lack of Police Numbers. Mrs May you are lying. As Home Secretary you put Policing to the sword. When the Federation told you that you cannot get more with less, you rubbished that statement. You should hold your head in shame as you hold a responsibility for much of the increase. At least you could show a little remorse and responsibility.

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