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Alf Ventress

Dash Cam

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Alf Ventress

Vehicle fails to stop and runs a number of red lights.

Stopped 45 mins later.

Front facing Dash cam has memory card.

Power to seize to assist in proving offence ...???

 

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Beaker

Huh? Do you mean do we have the power to seize it? If so the answer is yes.

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BlueBob

There should be a procedure in place as to how it is handled, viewed, copied and returned

 

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Sceptre

The vehicle is defined as premises according to S23 PACE, so you can use S19 to seize items found within the vehicle while you are lawfully on the premises. The discussion of powers of entry and search is another kettle of fish and would depend on the circumstances and what you're doing with the vehicle.

On the practical side, I would take the entire camera and not just the SD card to prevent any complications extracting the footage and to give it some continuity. 

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BlueBob
54 minutes ago, Sceptre said:

, I would take the entire camera and not just the SD card to prevent any complications extracting the footage and to give it some continuity. 

Why would taking the camera as well give any more continuity to the SD card, when all that is aimed to be achieved is to extract a copy of the data and return the SD card to the owner?

almost contrary to that practical idea, is the practical query as to what and how much do we take?  Camera, wiring / connections that pose it - an unpowered dashcam is just a paperweight.   

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Beaker
Why would taking the camera as well give any more continuity to the SD card, when all that is aimed to be achieved is to extract a copy of the data and return the SD card to the owner?
almost contrary to that practical idea, is the practical query as to what and how much do we take?  Camera, wiring / connections that pose it - an unpowered dashcam is just a paperweight.   
Good practice guide says take the camera if you can. It is to ensure there are fewer/no issues with proprietary formats.

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Sceptre
27 minutes ago, BlueBob said:

Why would taking the camera as well give any more continuity to the SD card, when all that is aimed to be achieved is to extract a copy of the data and return the SD card to the owner?

almost contrary to that practical idea, is the practical query as to what and how much do we take?  Camera, wiring / connections that pose it - an unpowered dashcam is just a paperweight.   

The first answer to come to mind would be verifying the date and time on the internal clock, so you can attribute any offences captured on film which weren't witnessed by police, and rule out any excuses about changes to the frame rate etc if you intend to use it as evidence of excess speed. The second practical reason would be not knowing how the data is stored on the SD card, for all you know it might be an unusual proprietary file format, or the device might be configured to be plugged into a computer rather than have the SD card taken out and put into a card reader and doing that gives you a long list of useless .dat files. Third reason is if you're a digital expert asked to view it, knowing the make and model of the camera will undoubtedly be useful, and I suppose the fourth reason if the driver is to be separated from their vehicle for whatever reason is for safekeeping. I would take the power leads etc as well yes, in case there is a need to run it to recover the footage or access drivers. 

Once the evidence is recovered from the device and its retention is unnecessary then it can be returned, in line with S22 PACE

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BlueBob

Not really disagreeing with the reasons to take camera etc, and in the right circs, taking the whole veh.  For the OP, the incident occurs within the hour of being found.  The OP describes doing some red ATS, presumably or assuming that was known as it was seen by the officers.  Lots of guessing from the OP circs.  Hence taking the card only was the baseline.  

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Alf Ventress

Only card was take, fully recorded on bwv and driver was ‘happy’ with this seizure. The primary evidence is officers 45 mins prior but this should add meat to the bone so to speak

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Sceptre

@BlueBob, we do have very little to go on so it is hard to judge what level to come in at, and I take your point about proportionate seizure. Having had difficult experiences in the past with funny imported camera equipment I would be tempted to err on the side of taking things I didn't need than not having something I did though – as an interesting legal aside, with a suitably compliant receipt we could even apply seize and sift powers in S50 CJPA to this scenario.

@Alf Ventress, so whence cometh the question? Has someone questioned your power to seize it?

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SD

What power are people searching the car under? That rather important part seems to have been skimmed over.

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Mac7

The question states the car has been stopped. I assumed the driver had been arrested, therefore the search would be under s.32 Pace.

 

This assumption seems to be reaffirmed by the post by the OP above.

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Sceptre
53 minutes ago, Mac7 said:

The question states the car has been stopped. I assumed the driver had been arrested, therefore the search would be under s.32 Pace.

So long as he's been arrested for an indictable offence, not just failing to stop. 

The other options might be if it's been uplifted under some power, in which case the police are the lawful bailees and are free to examine it, or it's been searched under some other power, or maybe it was done with consent. We can only speculate on the circumstances. 

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SD
2 hours ago, Mac7 said:

The question states the car has been stopped. I assumed the driver had been arrested, therefore the search would be under s.32 Pace.

 

This assumption seems to be reaffirmed by the post by the OP above.

As Septre has said, s32 premises searches are only after an arrest for an indictable offence. Nothing raised so far suggests that’s what the driver was arrested for. So, as I asked before. What lawful power are people planning on searching under?

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Mac7
As Septre has said, s32 premises searches are only after an arrest for an indictable offence. Nothing raised so far suggests that’s what the driver was arrested for. So, as I asked before. What lawful power are people planning on searching under?


Thanks for clarifying.

As Sceptre said, it could have been voluntary or if the vehicle seized then searched when in our possession.

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