Complaints against officers

[Fedster + 1,307]

Former TVP officer says police enable 'overt' racism towards the gypsy, roma and traveller community.

Jim Davies of the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller Police Association

Date - 18th October 2018
By - JJ Hutber- Police Oracle

1 Comment

 

The police service “leaks out” the notion that gypsies are a byword for criminals, MPs were told this week.

Jim Davies of the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller Police Association (GRTPA) and retired TVP police officer, told the Women and Equalities Committee on Wednesday he believes the police service perpetuates prejudice towards travellers.

He described himself as a “gypsy man” and said not a week goes by when he does not have to decide whether he will have to challenge someone “because they’ve come out with something overtly racist towards my particular ethnic group”.

Mr Davies, who co-found the GRTPA and is now legal development manager for the Traveller Movement, even decided against identifying as gypsy in the 2011 census because he feared for his children, he said.

“I think the portrayal of gypsies and travellers as somehow criminal has never really been dealt with, leaking particularly out the police service. 

"That leaking of this idea that gypsy and travellers are criminal affects the public consciousness. 

"It’s no wonder really they think I need to be scared of these people [the police].

“There’s an issue with any people that work within public services recognising what public sector duty is. 

"Certainly within the police, certainly from my experience when I worked that most police officers on the ground really didn’t have an understanding of what the public sector duty was and linked it to individual bigotry.”

He added: “I don’t think prejudice of frontline staff is the problem. 

"I think the focus should be on unconscious institutional bias because you can do all the training you want in the world if that staff member then goes and works in an institution whose policies, procedures and organisational behaviour are telling them to be suspicious of gypsies and travellers that training will be negated."

When he was questioned by the panel about perceptions a different set of rules are applied to GRT communities he said he doesn’t believe there is any evidence of that.

He said that 80 per cent of the population live in houses and the majority of those who live in caravans do not even travel.

“That gypsy and traveller somehow equates to criminal is very, very deeply embedded part of the fabric of policing. It has been for a long long time," he said. 

“My cousin moved into a house within a week she had pikey scum graffitied up the side of the house.

“These are daily experiences of gypsies and travellers now. Not some time in the past but today. It’s not some relic of a bygone age, it’s here and now.”

NPCC gypsy, roma and traveller lead, Acting Chief Constable Janette McCormick, said she believed the breakdown in relationships between the traveller community and police is as a result of inconsistency in the policing of unauthorised encampments.

“The reality is that very often if we go down to an unauthorised encampment there is no where to move people on to.

“We will be moving them down the road or moving them onto another borough.

“The guidance is really clear. Where there is a crime it’s dealt with fairly and appropriately. If there’s hate crime as well that should be recorded and investigated.

“But you are very often from an operational officer’s point of view trying to manage tensions. 

"So at times those crimes may not be recorded and we know there are issues with that. It is practically very difficult in many cases.

“We police without fear or favour but sometimes there will be a practical view of that.”

Josie O’Driscoll, director of Hertfordshire Gypsy and Traveller Empowerment (GATE) said she does not think police officers should be blamed for the precarious situations they find themselves in when called to illegal encampments.  

“When these encampments come into town as far as I know the council are responsible for the encampments but the first people the public ring are the police. The police at times don’t have the people to send out to these encampments. 

"I’ll talk about one last year where a crowd gathered.

“It was put out on social media that there was an encampment in town and they were shouting out, out, out. The police came along to be honest the police didn’t know what to do.

“They didn’t know whose side they were on so. I don’t think it’s all the police’s fault because the police are put in these positions where the councils should be responsible. It’s not the police’s duty unless there’s been a crime committed.”

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[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

Are there any others who flaunt the law with no regard for others. Every Camp when moved leave a massive bill for someone else to clear up their mess. Strange that, I understand, that they are not allowed in Ireland.

Do travellers not discriminate by camping on playing fields, play area's and any land that they can.

[ParochialYokal 1,119]

. They didn’t know whose side they were on so. I don’t think it’s all the police’s fault because the police are put in these positions where the councils should be responsible. It’s not the police’s duty unless there’s been a crime committed.”

 

I think that this is a fair comment, as it is not the police’s job to evict travellers from illegal encampments. Some councils just sit idly by and do very little.

 

As a slight aside, Kingston Council Contract with Wandsworth council to use their Parks Police to evict travellers (whom have been sworn in for Kington as well). No faffing about- either leave or we will use force to remove you.

 

 

[SD + 687]

You say unconscious bias I say offender profiling!

[ParochialYokal 1,119]

Are there any others who flaunt the law with no regard for others. Every Camp when moved leave a massive bill for someone else to clear up their mess. Strange that, I understand, that they are not allowed in Ireland.

Do travellers not discriminate by camping on playing fields, play area's and any land that they can.

 

Not all travellers ‘travel’, so making sweeping statements about travellers as a homogeneous group displays the unconscious bias that the article is referring to.

 

I have met two travellers on separate occasions whom happen to be gay and hold regular jobs and live in normal housing. Their heritage is part of their identity but that doesn’t mean that they go travelling.

 

I have also met travellers when I worked on a Youth Offending Team whom were ‘one man crime waves’.

 

They were type very different types of people, yet they all self-identified as being of gypsy descent.

 

Illegal encampments are absolutely antisocial but that doesn’t mean that all travellers do that.

 

My take away message from the article is that when talking about this group that the use of language needs to be nuanced.

 

I am sure that 30 years ago police officers used to make sweeping statements where it could be construed that they were collectively blaming all young black males for robbery. Trying to blame all travellers for the antisocial impact of illegal encampments or for any crime spikes within the vicinity there of is no different in my mind.

[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

But we are talking about itinerant travellers who travel, park their vans anywhere and everywhere without thought for the community or area. Strange that a crime wave follows them about. Cheap comment about blaming black youth's for robberies. The strange thing is, if the victim describes their assailant as "A black youth, then, and only then can you blame them. I have never known them to be blamed if the victim stated their assailant was white.

[ParochialYokal 1,119]

But we are talking about itinerant travellers who travel, park their vans anywhere and everywhere without thought for the community or area. Strange that a crime wave follows them about. Cheap comment about blaming black youth's for robberies. The strange thing is, if the victim describes their assailant as "A black youth, then, and only then can you blame them. I have never known them to be blamed if the victim stated their assailant was white.

I don’t think you understand the concept of nuance.

You were talking about ‘travellers’ and doing so as if all of them were “itinerant travellers who travel, park their vans anywhere and everywhere without thought for the community or area”.

And it wasn’t cheap comments about drawing an analogy about how males males were talked about in the past. Just because most street robbers might be black in some areas, it doesn’t mean that all black people are robbers.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

In a previous thread about unconscious bias the majority of posters refused to acknowledge that they had any. They could justify every opinion they had about everyone and weren’t bias at all.

[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

6 hours ago, ParochialYokal said:

 

I don’t think you understand the concept of nuance.

You were talking about ‘travellers’ and doing so as if all of them were “itinerant travellers who travel, park their vans anywhere and everywhere without thought for the community or area”.

And it wasn’t cheap comments about drawing an analogy about how males males were talked about in the past. Just because most street robbers might be black in some areas, it doesn’t mean that all black people are robbers.

No person has said that all black people are robbers. That is your perverted surmise. It is however irrefutable that if a robbery victim says the offender was black then, that black person is a robber. The same goes for itinerant travellers who park their vehicles and mobile homes on land leaving it in a mess which costs an authority a fortune to clear up the, it is fair to blame them. The same goes that crime figures increase when there is an encampment but of course that is nothing but coincidence. Check with your local trading standards about jobbing tarmac ers,  drive and roof cleaners.Our local Police put out a warning just yesterday of a team using this practice, but again they must be wrong warning householders and residents, especially the elderly.

[Fedster + 1,307]

'One square mile of land could help resolve police-traveller tensions'

'You can legislate as much as you want but we need the resources to enforce those powers'.

 

Date - 21st October 2018
By - JJ Hutber- Police Oracle

1 Comment

 

A gypsy and traveller police network has spoken out against proposals to give officers more powers to deal with unauthorised encampments.

Last April Housing Minister Dominic Raab launched a consultation into unauthorised travellers’ encampments in response to “long standing concerns” about the issue.

The joint Home Office, Ministry of Justice and Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government consultation asked for views on whether a new law needs to be created, powers that could be extended, how court processes can be improved and whether there are any barriers to creating authorised travellers’ sites.

The results have not yet been published.

Director of the Gypsy Roma Traveller Police Association Martin Campbell told Police Oracle he would not support plans to give police more powers.

He said as little as one square mile of land would be enough to build enough sites across England to allow Section 62 powers to be used effectively.  

“Each county is reported to spend over £250,000 per year on enforcement of evictions but current estimates are that same figure, if we spent in each county on building sites, we would significantly reduce the taxpayers’ bill within three years.

“You can legislate as much as you want but we need the resources to enforce those additional powers - resources that could be funded in the long term by the savings we can make once adequate site provision is available.”

“Additional powers will not help the situation in my opinion but instead continue a cycle that has existed for generations.

"The answer to unauthorised encampments is to build more culturally appropriate sites in each county. The government recognised this in 1967 but has so far failed to deliver this in the majority of our counties nationwide.”

He said the money saved from investment in official traveller sites would be better spent on tackling criminality instead of chasing families from field to field every year.  

His comments echo the responses of the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) and Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC) to the consultation.

Their joint submission argued the root cause of conflict between settled communities and travellers is an acute shortage of authorised encampments.

The NPCC and APCC both rejected proposals for new policing powers and said the solution is to provide more spaces gypsies and travellers can legally camp.

Nor did the organisations support the creation of criminal offences such as “intentional trespass”.

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