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TheMoo

Where does Banksy's latest stunt stand in terms of criminal damage?

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TheMoo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45770028

"A stencil spray painting by elusive artist Banksy shredded itself after it was sold for more than £1m." 

Is it criminal damage? By Banksy? Or is it considered part of the art piece, as it was part of the frame and is sold as seen? 

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ParochialYokal

Banksy owned it and just because the hammer went down doesn’t mean that there was an automatic change of ownership.

 

What Banksy did was probably a breach of contract. When the hammer went down he entered into a contract to sell the piece but ownership doesn’t change until the paperwork is sorted and the money changes hands.

 

I guess it’s a bit like when you exchange contracts on a house. You don’t own the house until completion but it is hard for the seller to pull out after exchanging contracts and accepting a deposit.

 

That’s my take on it. I am sure there must be some interesting caselaw somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

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HazRat

It’s art. Are you seriously suggesting that the auctioneer(s) had no idea that this frame wasn’t all it appeared to be? Surely someone must have looked at when authenticating it? I would suggest that this might make it a bit more valuable, although I’d want the shredder disabled just to make sure that it does totally shred it.

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ParochialYokal
It’s art. Are you seriously suggesting that the auctioneer(s) had no idea that this frame wasn’t all it appeared to be? Surely someone must have looked at when authenticating it? I would suggest that this might make it a bit more valuable, although I’d want the shredder disabled just to make sure that it does totally shred it.

 

The auction was for the picture and not for the frame, so it’s probable that the frame wasn’t checked.

 

I am not sure that Southeby’s would have engaged in such plan, in all fairness. There would be nothing in it for them.

 

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Chaos

I think I would have wanted a refund, or just not paid.. That shredded up painting is not the one I bid for!

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Mac7
It’s art. Are you seriously suggesting that the auctioneer(s) had no idea that this frame wasn’t all it appeared to be? Surely someone must have looked at when authenticating it? I would suggest that this might make it a bit more valuable, although I’d want the shredder disabled just to make sure that it does totally shred it.



Spot on. It was art and probably more valuable as a result.

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Beaker
2 hours ago, ParochialYokal said:

I am not sure that Southeby’s would have engaged in such plan, in all fairness. There would be nothing in it for them. 

 

You have seen the press coverage?  Their next Banksy sale will be covered by all the major news outlets to see if happens again.  It's some of the best free advertisement I've seen in years. 

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HazRat

And this just in on IG 

 

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bensonby

What if the shredded painting is now worth even more due to the hype?!

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ParochialYokal
You have seen the press coverage?  Their next Banksy sale will be covered by all the major news outlets to see if happens again.  It's some of the best free advertisement I've seen in years. 


This is Southeby’s of London we are talking About, not Sports Direct. They are a top end auction house. It’s not as if such publicity is going to divert custom to them from competitors.

Whist I find the whole think quiet amusing, I doubt that they do and I imagine that their stiff upper lip is quivering with incongruity.

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Beaker
12 minutes ago, ParochialYokal said:

This is Southeby’s of London we are talking About, not Sports Direct. They are a top end auction house. It’s not as if such publicity is going to divert custom to them from competitors.

Whist I find the whole think quiet amusing, I doubt that they do and I imagine that their stiff upper lip is quivering with incongruity.

 

It'll make no difference.  He's turned a stencil artwork in to performance art.  Sotherbys won't make a loss here either way, and the next time they put some of his artwork up the interest will be much higher.  

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ParochialYokal
It'll make no difference.  He's turned a stencil artwork in to performance art.  Sotherbys won't make a loss here either way, and the next time they put some of his artwork up the interest will be much higher.  


That hardly means that they ‘were in on it’

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Beaker


That hardly means that they ‘were in on it’


I’d be very surprised if they weren’t aware there was machinery in there.

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ParochialYokal

 

I’d be very surprised if they weren’t aware there was machinery in there.

 

I wonder whether there was a shredder in there at all.

 

Banksy said that he put a shredder in a picture frame a couple of years ago. He didn’t say it was that one!

 

If you look at the ‘shredded’ bit, it has a rounded crease near the bottom as if it has been folded around a roller for a period of time.

 

I do wonder whether it was actually a trick and the real one just got rolled up into a secret compartment. That would be an easier feat than installing a shredding machine into a frame. It’s the basic premise of a common magic trick.

 

But I digress...

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Straker

Again thinking it was a trick here.

What did the auctioneer press with his right hand below the top of the desk immediately after he struck with the hammer? He transferred the hammer to his left hand then pressed on something. 

Also back to the original point no offences if no money was exchanged for the sale, possibly a civil matter depending on the contract terms of the auction (some allow a seller to back out until money is exchanged)

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