Complaints against officers

[Fedster + 1,307]

Met will work to make event 'safe and spectacular for all'.

Increased presence: Deployment of officers to rise by 450 to 13,000 this year

Date - 24th August 2018
By - Nick Hudson - Police Oracle

3 Comments

 

Policing is resorting to “tried and tested” methods to neutralise the threat of violence at Europe's largest street festival as new figures show a seven-year high in knife crime across the UK.

Notting Hill Carnival will have knife arches placed around the event for the first time as the highest number of officers in six years will police the bank holiday parade.

It is hoped that its “continued major effort” against the surge in murders and stabbings in the capital in 2018 will put off those planning to attend the event armed with weapons.

A force spokesman did not disclose where the arches would be located, but said not everybody will be expected to pass through them.

The concerted moves by the Met, with an increased presence of 13,000 officers including almost 7,000 from the newly-formed Violent Crime Task Force, follows alarming statistics associated with Britain’s soaring serious crime epidemic.

Fresh Met figures show that knife crime in the capital has gone up by 16 per cent with a 12 per cent rise in murders in the UK – the highest numbers in a decade, on a par with deaths in New York in February and March.

The total number of offences involving a knife or bladed instrument that have been recorded by forces in England and Wales in the year to March 2018 rose to 40,147, a seven-year-high.

At least 51 people have been fatally stabbed in London since the beginning of the year with Met figures revealing 1,299 stabbings up the end of April alone.

The west London street party – expected to attract more than one million people to its floats, food stalls and music – will see a combination of overt and covert policing tactics deployed with specialist assets from the Force Firearms Unit, Dog Unit and officers from the Mounted Branch. 

The force has indicated the “use of knife arches is a tried-and-tested method of deterring people from carrying knives, as well as detecting those who choose to do so”.

Carnival gold commander Dave Musker said: “The Met seeks to support Notting Hill Carnival Ltd, carnivalists and local communities to deliver a safe and spectacular event over the bank holiday weekend.

“Our continued major effort directed against violence across the capital will continue.”

He added: “Let no one be in any doubt that if you have the intention to come to carnival and be involved in crime or violence, my officers will robustly and proactively target you to keep Londoners safe.”

Superintendent Elisabeth Chapple, Met spokeswoman for the carnival, urged those who know of anyone planning to cause trouble to contact police.

“Whilst there’s no specific threat to this event, we are keeping the situation under constant review” she said.

“The sheer number of people coming to carnival and the relatively small geographical area, means that it is a challenging environment to police.”

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[sierragolf95 + 55]

As someone who has spent a number of years in event security I cannot understand why this event hasn't been cancelled. If this was a festival in the middle of nowhere it would've been shut down long ago, the fact it's in amongst the day to day public in built up areas makes it even higher risk. Why is it still allowed to go ahead?

[Sceptre + 2,701]

On 24/08/2018 at 15:27, Fedster said:

The concerted moves by the Met, with an increased presence of 13,000 officers...

To put that into perspective, it's more than the entire police officer establishments of the City of London Police, Warwickshire Police, Wiltshire Police, Gloucestershire Constabulary, Suffolk Constabulary, Lincolnshire Police, Cumbria Constabulary, Bedfordshire Police, Durham Constabulary, Gwent Police, Dyfed-Powys Police and Northamptonshire Police all put together.

It's hard to imagine how unpleasant this event must be to work that it requires so many cops. 

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

As someone who has spent a number of years in event security I cannot understand why this event hasn't been cancelled. If this was a festival in the middle of nowhere it would've been shut down long ago, the fact it's in amongst the day to day public in built up areas makes it even higher risk. Why is it still allowed to go ahead?

Why should it be shut down?

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

13,000? That's nearly 40% of the Met's entire warranted headcount.
The impact on the boroughs and teams that those officers would normally police must be huge.

[Mac7 808]

Why should it be shut down?

 

I agree with you in part but an event that requires this much security surely has be questioned.

 

There was an article recently that called for a ban on open air concerts in London parks due to the anti social behaviour and disorder. Those numbers attending concerts is a fraction of the numbers attending carnival.

 

I would hate to see something like this banned but difficult questions and decisions need to be asked/made by all persons involved in delivering it.

[junior_7178 62]

Where on earth did they find 7000 cops from to foŕm a new task force?

[Beaker 817]

Where on earth did they find 7000 cops from to foŕm a new task force?

The Met's numbers I feel is why the parliamentary weiners think there are enough officers.

[HazRat 762]

23 minutes ago, junior_7178 said:

Where on earth did they find 7000 cops from to foŕm a new task force?

 Violent task force isn’t 7000 strong. If that was the case it would strip boroughs of most of their staff. 

[Growley + 2,436]

Why should it be shut down?

Are you serious?

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

Are you serious?

Yes, genuine question.
I know there are those who for the answer to any problem is to ban whatever they consider causes it but that's how a society could, or should function.
I know we read every year about some criminality that took place at the Carnival but how much of that is caused by the carnival? There will be violence and drug supplying/taking going on every other weekend of the year and in every other area. Last year I thought some stories of crimes being linked to the Carnival were embarrassing. Drugs warrants weeks before - does anyone seriously think that those drugs were only on the streets because the Carnival was going to happen?
The report on the 2016 carnival says there were 151 crimes of violence against the person - that's a 0.0075% chance of an individual carnival attended being assaulted.
We had serious violence associated with football but we didn't ban football. There is criminality at Glastonbury, the Reading Festival, the Isle of White Festival and we don't ban those. Would Brazil ban the Rio Carnival?
Reports are that some two million people enjoy the Notting Hill Carnival weekend every year. Why should they miss out?
One argument may be that it costs £7M to police it - counter that with the £93M it brings to the local economy.
So while I can understand a cop with a narrow minded cop's view of the weekend (having to work when I don't want to, dealing with large crowds of people, having to deal with the problem element of society in a concentrated way) will be thinking that life would be easier for them and their colleagues for a couple of days if there was no Carnival the vast majority of people enjoy the weekend.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the local residents, but then, as it has taken place since 1966 how many people moved there without knowing about the likelihood of having a disrupted weekend once a year?
So why ban it?

[sierragolf95 + 55]

9 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

Yes, genuine question.
I know there are those who for the answer to any problem is to ban whatever they consider causes it but that's how a society could, or should function.
I know we read every year about some criminality that took place at the Carnival but how much of that is caused by the carnival? There will be violence and drug supplying/taking going on every other weekend of the year and in every other area. Last year I thought some stories of crimes being linked to the Carnival were embarrassing. Drugs warrants weeks before - does anyone seriously think that those drugs were only on the streets because the Carnival was going to happen?
The report on the 2016 carnival says there were 151 crimes of violence against the person - that's a 0.0075% chance of an individual carnival attended being assaulted.
We had serious violence associated with football but we didn't ban football. There is criminality at Glastonbury, the Reading Festival, the Isle of White Festival and we don't ban those. Would Brazil ban the Rio Carnival?
Reports are that some two million people enjoy the Notting Hill Carnival weekend every year. Why should they miss out?
One argument may be that it costs £7M to police it - counter that with the £93M it brings to the local economy.
So while I can understand a cop with a narrow minded cop's view of the weekend (having to work when I don't want to, dealing with large crowds of people, having to deal with the problem element of society in a concentrated way) will be thinking that life would be easier for them and their colleagues for a couple of days if there was no Carnival the vast majority of people enjoy the weekend.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the local residents, but then, as it has taken place since 1966 how many people moved there without knowing about the likelihood of having a disrupted weekend once a year?
So why ban it?

It should be banned because it simply attracts trouble, it causes a serious impact to the lives of locals (far more than the average event would cause) and is simply a crime hotspot. Had this been a licenced venue or an open air music festival it would've been shut down by now, I can't see why it hasn't been. There is criminality involved at every festival, my most memorable being T in The Park, even that had to be pulled for the bad name it was getting and after 2015 I flat out refused to work it again. It may only cost 7 million to police when it brings in 93 million, but that will strip police in London to the bone, from the moped crime to the acid attacks and extreme violence on the streets, this is just more pressure onto an already stretched force and it means probably half of London will suffer from a lack of police on the streets.

[Fedster + 1,307]

Notting Hill Carnival: Police arrest 133 with 20 weapons seized on Sunday

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/notting-hill-carnival-arrests-133-held-with-20-weapons-seized-by-police-on-first-day-a3920766.html

[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 08:30, Reasonable Man said:

Why should it be shut down?

As other have stated, anywhere else had it been issued a licence then it would have been cancelled.  There is no way which you can justify the manpower levels and the expense which runs into £millions, which out weighs the benefits. Bringing £93 million to the local economy is a fallacy. If that is the case, which it is not, then let them fund it but not on public highways. People should never be put in a position of having to board up their property. That, in itself, cannot be justified in a so called lawful society.

Of course if the Police should even suggest that it should be cancelled then we would all be accused of being racist. You could also make the same argument for all of the "Gay Pride" carnivals. It is strange how when it comes to the British Legion in November that the celebration of armistice and the parades cannot be Policed because of the manpower and the cost. Does that say something about our society. If you take that into account then the Notting Hill Carnival and Pride parades are an insult to the majority of the population.

Your comments  Quote "So while I can understand a cop with a narrow minded cop's view of the weekend (having to work when I don't want to, dealing with large crowds of people, having to deal with the problem element of society in a concentrated way) will be thinking that life would be easier for them and their colleagues for a couple of days if there was no Carnival the vast majority of people enjoy the weekend".  is nothing less than an insult to serving officers. A couple of Met Officers that I speak to say that there are many aspects and conduct at the Carnival which are terrifying.

[Growley + 2,436]

23 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

Yes, genuine question.
I know there are those who for the answer to any problem is to ban whatever they consider causes it but that's how a society could, or should function.
I know we read every year about some criminality that took place at the Carnival but how much of that is caused by the carnival? There will be violence and drug supplying/taking going on every other weekend of the year and in every other area. Last year I thought some stories of crimes being linked to the Carnival were embarrassing.

It's a fact that gangs from all over London use the carnival as a location to meet up and fight. It's not necessarily that there's more violence happening on the day (I haven't checked) but that the violence in concentrated at one event with thousands of innocent people tightly packed around them. 

There's also the issue of the streets and peoples' properties being absolutely trashed over the weekend every year.

23 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

Drugs warrants weeks before - does anyone seriously think that those drugs were only on the streets because the Carnival was going to happen?

Whilst those warrants do attempt to stop drugs turning up at carnival, they're often more about stopping certain people attending carnival. The job does similar things before other large events.

23 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

The report on the 2016 carnival says there were 151 crimes of violence against the person - that's a 0.0075% chance of an individual carnival attended being assaulted.
We had serious violence associated with football but we didn't ban football. There is criminality at Glastonbury, the Reading Festival, the Isle of White Festival and we don't ban those.

Statistics like that are very comforting I'm sure, but when you consider that's 151 recorded crimes in a series of a few streets, that's pretty significant. 

23 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

Would Brazil ban the Rio Carnival?

Probably not, but they have a different situation over there anyway. I'd suggest it's not entirely analogous.

23 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

Reports are that some two million people enjoy the Notting Hill Carnival weekend every year. Why should they miss out?
One argument may be that it costs £7M to police it - counter that with the £93M it brings to the local economy.
So while I can understand a cop with a narrow minded cop's view of the weekend (having to work when I don't want to, dealing with large crowds of people, having to deal with the problem element of society in a concentrated way) will be thinking that life would be easier for them and their colleagues for a couple of days if there was no Carnival the vast majority of people enjoy the weekend.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the local residents, but then, as it has taken place since 1966 how many people moved there without knowing about the likelihood of having a disrupted weekend once a year?
So why ban it?

Unfortunately it's the way of things that a minority can ruin it for the majority. 

Even then, there have been suggestions of moving it to an enclosable location (such as Hyde Park) and using a ticketing system to refuse known gang members on the door, as has happened with festivals like Lovebox. It would probably mean the floats will be severely limited, but I personally think that's a fair compromise. It also means local residents don't get their houses trashed every year.