Port of Tilbury-Police Constable

[Fedster + 1,307]

Numbers of personnel at level have been cut by a quarter since 2010.

 

Date - 17th August 2018
By - Ian Weinfass - Police Oracle

7 Comments

 

A project to monitor the hours spent working by superintendents has been launched by a staff association.

A survey by the Police Superintendents’ Association of England and Wales recently found more than three-quarters work more than 50 hours a week, on rest days and on annual leave days.

As a result there are widespread reports of anxiety and depression among their number.

But half of respondents to that survey said they didn’t monitor how many they worked.

The association has now decided to gather accurate data on the extent to which supers work hours exceeding working time regulations – 48 hours a week. It hopes to use the results of a 21-week monitoring period from October to help reduce excessive working hours.

National Secretary Chief Superintendent Dan Murphy said: “With the significant reduction over recent years in the superintending ranks, members’ roles have become more complex and demanding.

“To ensure the impact of this on the health and wellbeing of members is better understood, the association has started a project to provide an accurate picture of the extent to which the superintending ranks may be working excessive hours.

“Association President Gavin Thomas and NPCC Chair Sara Thornton have jointly written to all chief constables asking forces for information on how they comply with working time regulations and seeking to identify good practice to develop improvements in this area.

“As well as working hours, information on the amount of on-call and other factors that could impact on health and wellbeing will be recorded and analysed.”

Action could be taken during the monitoring period if required and members want this to happen, he said.

Since 2010 there has been a 25 per cent reduction in officer numbers in superintending ranks.

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[SD + 688]

Be interesting to do the same for ALL ranks if they’re spouting ‘working time directives’

[Jeebs + 1,190]

Not really news. If they looked at PCs and Sgts working hours they’d find that they are all almost always exceeding 50hr weeks.

An average working week for me used to be 60-80 hours, prior to transferring.

[Mac7 808]

I’d say 50+ hour weeks are the norm for me.

Officers in investigative roles are working in excess of their hours and even on rest days, most of which will be unclaimed. Poor superintendents.

[Techie1 + 2,024]

Is it Insp and above that don't get paid overtime?

I'm sure there's a fair few of them doing well over the wtd limit.

[Hyphen + 693]

I agree with some posters here, this needs to be looked at across the ranks. I think the problem is I end up working a good few hours a week extra as do many colleagues. This isn’t necessarily paid either, it is hidden overtime in a way. It is just to get things done on crimes as at the moment as soon as we sit down in parade we are usually turned out to jobs and very rarely get back to the station or able to do enquiries. It’s sadly going to get worse and worse as time goes on and work piles up.

I think it’s potentially another story which just shows the issues within policing at the moment.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

As said, the same goes for all ranks. The Federation should be acting on behalf of their members as the Supt Association is for its.
There is thing that PCs and Sgts get paid for extra hours while Superintendents don’t, but are expected to work them. A FOI request in the force I was working in a couple of years ago showed two Sgts earned more than than Chief Supers in the year.

[Growley + 2,436]

6 hours ago, Hyphen said:

This isn’t necessarily paid either, it is hidden overtime in a way. 

When I was new in the job I was fed the line that you stay until the job is done, and occasionally told not to put in for OT because "there's nothing in the budget". Now, I absolutely refuse to work if I'm not being paid. Until people start refusing to work for free en masse, these practices will continue. 

Well, either that or they'll buy out our ability to earn overtime like they did with inspectors, and we'll all be shafted anyway.

[Jeebs + 1,190]

14 minutes ago, Growley said:

When I was new in the job I was fed the line that you stay until the job is done, and occasionally told not to put in for OT because "there's nothing in the budget". Now, I absolutely refuse to work if I'm not being paid. Until people start refusing to work for free en masse, these practices will continue. 

Well, either that or they'll buy out our ability to earn overtime like they did with inspectors, and we'll all be shafted anyway.

It would have to be a hell of a buy out! I too was like you once, stayed until the job was done. The first question I now ask is “has the OT been authorised?!”.

I struggle to see how or why Supts are supposedly putting in all these hours to be quite honest.

[Reasonable Man + 1,231]

I struggle to see how or why Supts are supposedly putting in all these hours to be quite honest.

I guess you’re not a Superintendent?

[Hyphen + 693]

2 minutes ago, Reasonable Man said:

I guess you’re not a Superintendent?

It’s a fair point, I don’t believe all Supers in all forces are doing actual policing. It’s a good question to ask with higher ranks as much of it is work that probably isn’t essential.

31 minutes ago, Growley said:

When I was new in the job I was fed the line that you stay until the job is done, and occasionally told not to put in for OT because "there's nothing in the budget". Now, I absolutely refuse to work if I'm not being paid. Until people start refusing to work for free en masse, these practices will continue. 

Well, either that or they'll buy out our ability to earn overtime like they did with inspectors, and we'll all be shafted anyway.

I completely agree with your point, however, I’ve had these debates with some colleagues. I should just do my shift and go home and do what I can. In reality that won’t help me when the complaints roll in, prosecution time limits are missed, cctv  doesn’t get viewed/retriever before being lost, further delays in interviewing suspects, taking statements etc.

The reality is much of the time cops are having to work extra hours to get these sorts of things done.

[Jeebs + 1,190]

1 minute ago, Reasonable Man said:

I guess you’re not a Superintendent?

No, not even close....

I rarely see Supts, maybe because of all the TOIL.  

[Beaker 817]

I was at my mother's house, and asked about this. Grandfather used to leave the house at 06:30 weekdays, and get back home any time between 19:00 and 22:00 on weekdays as D/SUPT Often worked Saturday and Sunday as well if there was a big case on. Once he moved to uniform as a Chief Super he usually avoided weekends though. That was the 70s, so it isn't a new thing.

[Growley + 2,436]

1 minute ago, Hyphen said:

I completely agree with your point, however, I’ve had these debates with some colleagues. I should just do my shift and go home and do what I can. In reality that won’t help me when the complaints roll in, prosecution time limits are missed, cctv  doesn’t get viewed/retriever before being lost, further delays in interviewing suspects, taking statements etc.

The reality is much of the time cops are having to work extra hours to get these sorts of things done.

Extra hours are fine and often unavoidable... provided you're being paid. Otherwise I'd just email a list to my skipper of all the things I couldn't get done and ask for either the OT to be authorised, or they find someone else to do it. I've ruffled feathers that way, but if you're worried about complaints and CPS escalations, having it in writing stops your supervision rowing for shore. 

I count myself fortunate to be in a role where I can leave most of this nonsense behind now, but it still annoys me every time I hear about it, because frankly it's taking the mickey out of hard working people.

32 minutes ago, Jeebs said:

I struggle to see how or why Supts are supposedly putting in all these hours to be quite honest.

 I imagine a lot of it is things like being the on-call PIP Supt, or being put as Gold on a long operation.

Also, as with anyone given a job phone, if it rings you're expected to answer it; and with the 24 hour nature of policing, I can see a lot of Supts getting phone calls and emails while they're out of the office.

[SD + 688]

Got to agree with Growley. If I’m not getting paid, I’m not working. Do deadlines get missed and complaints made? Sure, but I make sure there’s an audit trail of me asking for time to do it during the shift and being told no, getting turned out or OT being refused.

Bosses hate it but there’s nothing they can do about it as it’s their decisions/details recorded on crimes, files etc.

if you make it system work with 10 officers they’ll try it with 9, make it work with 9 they’ll try it with 8. By doing it you’re helping short term but making it more difficult long term.