Radman + 2,165 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Sort of reminds me of a scenario we had on the old forums where a council warden followed a man into his place work where he has refused details - weird... Now as someone who has dealt with a similar incident (granted I wasn't recorded) I came very close to arresting the individual who refused details to the council wardens and then to me when initially requested - that was sorted when I effectively said I wasn't bluffing and he would come down to custody if he didn't furnish who he was, this cop I feel frankly could have done better - nothing against the bloke but after three times of a man refusing his address, he'd have come in for me. I've got two council wardens telling me they have seen the man commit an offence, there is video evidence of an offence, he's been identified to me and he's refusing to provide his details when spoken to? Definitely coming down to the police station. I cannot quite understand the ending, he initially states he 'believes' the bloke has committed a crime then at the end walks off and says "I'll come back up and speak to the enforcement officers if there is an offence that has been committed..." - You've already done that... For your viewing pleasure: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LankyDan + 293 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Simple from me to. He'd be arrested. I wouldn't've done all the explaining about an offence being committed... No reason to speak with the litter people again. Im sure locking him up would go down well with his employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richhamdo + 877 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 He's a strange guy alright,this video reminded me of the time I once had to deal with chap aged about eighteen or twenty quite a few years ago who wouldn't give me his name and address,the only one I ever had,it wasn't for littering but was for urinateing near the taxi rank,he hadn't made any effort to go out of the public gaze,anyway I asked him for his details as you do over and over again as the last thing I wanted to do was arrest him,I used every bit of tact I could think off,I pleaded with him,explained why I wanted his details and threatened him with arrest if he didn't but to no avail,it was all falling on deaf ears ,I just couldn't figure out where I was going wrong,anyway he got arrested what else could I do?.when we got him to the charge room at our local station he suddenly changed his mind almost as soon as we went through the back door and gave full details,after talking to him it turned out that he thought he was been prosecuted for indecent exposure which I presume he thought was the worst thing imaginable,in the end when the sgt finally turned up he eventually just booted him out with a warning or suitable advice,and we resumed,he wasn't a bad lad actually,just misguided so it was ok with me,I don't suppose he would ever do it again.Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman + 2,165 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 He's a strange guy alright,this video reminded me of the time I once had to deal with chap aged about eighteen or twenty quite a few years ago who wouldn't give me his name and address,the only one I ever had,it wasn't for littering but was for urinateing near the taxi rank,he hadn't made any effort to go out of the public gaze,anyway I asked him for his details as you do over and over again as the last thing I wanted to do was arrest him,I used every bit of tact I could think off,I pleaded with him,explained why I wanted his details and threatened him with arrest if he didn't but to no avail,it was all falling on deaf ears ,I just couldn't figure out where I was going wrong,anyway he got arrested what else could I do?.when we got him to the charge room at our local station he suddenly changed his mind almost as soon as we went through the back door and gave full details,after talking to him it turned out that he thought he was been prosecuted for indecent exposure which I presume he thought was the worst thing imaginable,in the end when the sgt finally turned up he eventually just booted him out with a warning or suitable advice,and we resumed,he wasn't a bad lad actually,just misguided so it was ok with me,I don't suppose he would ever do it again.Rich. It is a hard decision but if you've been 'called to service' by another organisation where an offence has clearly occurred I personally wouldn't let the person play the system or atleast attempt to play it by refusing their details, if a power of arrest is there use it, custody have no real choice but to accept so long as the necessity exists. I wouldn't ever feel overly bad for bringing someone in under such circumstances, aslong as you can explain your reasoning to the custody sergeant so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richhamdo + 877 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It is a hard decision but if you've been 'called to service' by another organisation where an offence has clearly occurred I personally wouldn't let the person play the system or atleast attempt to play it by refusing their details, if a power of arrest is there use it, custody have no real choice but to accept so long as the necessity exists. I wouldn't ever feel overly bad for bringing someone in under such circumstances, aslong as you can explain your reasoning to the custody sergeant so be it. Radman,Spot on,yes I must confess this guy would have been explaining his thinking to the custody officer just before the end of the film for me in all probability,but as in any case you need to be there,personally I will give that Bobby his due,he did try with him, as far as my guy goes it was a few years before we started training for pace,early eighties I would think, pace certainly wasn't in place,so not so much of a problem with the niceties then.Still had the judges rules/short and long caution though which as I recall were strictly adhered to.Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffe + 56 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would have nicked him. It may well have been a low level offence, but he (allegedly) had previous for it, and it makes you wonder if there's any other reasons why he doesn't want to give his details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceHQ 117 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I agree, arrest all day long. I almost feel it's not that well covered in training, that if the necessity is there you can arrest, for anything no matter how trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRam + 81 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If the guy had given his details to the police officer what power would the cop be utilising if he then provided these details to the litter police guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LankyDan + 293 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If the guy had given his details to the police officer what power would the cop be utilising if he then provided these details to the litter police guy? His power of common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRam + 81 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Is there a breach of data protection legislation though? If an offence has occurred and YOU require the persons details is that not so that you can gather the evidence and build a summons file or similar? I don't know the answer to these questions, just playing devils advocate really. Be interesting to know if there are issues in providing suspects details to a third party company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin + 94 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is there a breach of data protection legislation though? I wouldn't imagine so. You would argue it's covered by one of the statutory exemptions. Most appropriate would probably be "the capture or prosecution of offenders". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensonby + 3,503 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Indeed: which we do for ticketing offences all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LankyDan + 293 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is there a breach of data protection legislation though? If an offence has occurred and YOU require the persons details is that not so that you can gather the evidence and build a summons file or similar? I don't know the answer to these questions, just playing devils advocate really. Be interesting to know if there are issues in providing suspects details to a third party company. You don't have a power to require them... It's not the same as driving legislation and the requirements we make there. Were just asking for their Name and Address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LankyDan + 293 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Edit: in relation to littering specifically if it happend on Railway property then a requirement could be made for name and address under the bylaws. General street littering no requirement to provide as far as I'm aware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman + 2,165 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Yeah there is, you can ticket for street littering as part of a standard PND - Section 87 Environmental Protection Act 1990. Standard requirement under PACE to require name and address if an offence has occurred. I'd argue it has gone beyond the council enforcement team being able to deal with the matter if they have had to waste police time by calling you in, I personally wouldn't be disclosing any details to them especially if he refuses to disclose his details to them in first place, I'd be treating this as a PND ticket or straight up summons to court. Edited June 13, 2015 by Radman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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