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[Fedster + 1,307]

Second decision will follow the green-light for probationers earlier this year.

A decision on whether specials can be issued with taser is to be taken by chief constables.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council has confirmed the issue is to be considered at its July meeting.

Earlier this year it gave the green-light for probationers to use the less lethal weapons.

Preparations for this to happen in practice are ongoing.

The issue of special constables and probationers having access to taser came back onto the agenda after the London Bridge attacks and the injuries suffered by PC Wayne Marques, a probationer who tried to fight three knife-wielding terrorists with a baton.

It was agreed to take the decisions in two phases, with specials’ access discussed after issues with allowing trainee officers to have it had been worked out.

A spokesman for the NPCC said: “Chief constables are set to discuss whether specials can be issued with taser at a meeting in July.”

Association of Special Constabulary Officers chairman Ian Miller told Police Oracle: “The view of ASCO is that taser is an integral part of personal protective equipment.

“Frontline officers whether regular or special should have access to taser if they meet the national standards and are prepared to undertake the training.”

Last year when she gave an overview of the debate around changing the rules, NPCC chairman Sara Thornton outlined reasons why some chiefs opposed extending its use.

She said: “The public are often very concerned about tasers and there have been cases where people have been harmed inappropriately and therefore we need to be very careful that we can reassure the public that when tasers are used they are used by officers who are knowledgeable, mature in their assessment and therefore we need to take a careful approach.”

She would not be drawn on her own view.

View On Police Oracle

[Beaker 817]

While I am interested in this, I'm also sceptical that they'll allow it. The first time it comes to light an SC draws a taser the national press will be up in arms.

For the most part I'd appreciate the training, and the extra tools in the box. I am however also aware that a lot of regs who haven't had the opportunity to attend a taser course will be somewhat put out.

[Sceptre + 2,710]

Some interesting drills in the picture there...

On a serious note it will be difficult for the NPCC to justify treating special constables less favourably than regular officers, and if they do hopefully ASCO will prove its worth by challenging it under these regulations.

[Hyphen + 693]

1 hour ago, Sceptre said:

Some interesting drills in the picture there...

On a serious note it will be difficult for the NPCC to justify treating special constables less favourably than regular officers, and if they do hopefully ASCO will prove its worth by challenging it under these regulations.

That did make me laugh! 

Although there are occasions where you would need to think about your probe placement and would cant the taser.

As someone who has been trained in Taser for some time now I wish we would just drop the hysteria around it. It’s a good piece of kit in the right circumstances and is the lowest use of force available in terms of the medical implications. Let’s just have an adult discussion about it and make it a normal piece of kit. 

We say it time and time again, specials and regulars are trusted with a baton and spray from day 1, a baton is far far more dangerous in comparison.

Hopefully this will get sorted out sooner rather than later.

[Growley + 2,436]

Some interesting drills in the picture there...

On a serious note it will be difficult for the NPCC to justify treating special constables less favourably than regular officers, and if they do hopefully ASCO will prove its worth by challenging it under these regulations.

It's actually the right thing to do in the circumstances.

You cant the taser to ensure both probes hit, and the red dot, which indicates for the top probe, needs to be at the head end; so if you're head on to a prone subject, you turn the taser upside down, or as close to it as you can get.

Considering the subject appears to have been tasered in the back, it would suggest he had been tasered from the position they're currently in.

That being said, and on the actual topic at hand, I can't understand all this hysteria about a little plastic toy gun. Then again, I don't understand all this nonsense about real guns either; they're just another piece of kit. Outside of dealing with specialist situations, they don't take much skill or experience to use effectively.

[Stormy102 29]

On 16/05/2018 at 13:13, Fedster said:

Second decision will follow the green-light for probationers earlier this year.

A decision on whether specials can be issued with taser is to be taken by chief constables.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council has confirmed the issue is to be considered at its July meeting.

Earlier this year it gave the green-light for probationers to use the less lethal weapons.

Preparations for this to happen in practice are ongoing.

The issue of special constables and probationers having access to taser came back onto the agenda after the London Bridge attacks and the injuries suffered by PC Wayne Marques, a probationer who tried to fight three knife-wielding terrorists with a baton.

It was agreed to take the decisions in two phases, with specials’ access discussed after issues with allowing trainee officers to have it had been worked out.

A spokesman for the NPCC said: “Chief constables are set to discuss whether specials can be issued with taser at a meeting in July.”

Association of Special Constabulary Officers chairman Ian Miller told Police Oracle: “The view of ASCO is that taser is an integral part of personal protective equipment.

“Frontline officers whether regular or special should have access to taser if they meet the national standards and are prepared to undertake the training.”

Last year when she gave an overview of the debate around changing the rules, NPCC chairman Sara Thornton outlined reasons why some chiefs opposed extending its use.

She said: “The public are often very concerned about tasers and there have been cases where people have been harmed inappropriately and therefore we need to be very careful that we can reassure the public that when tasers are used they are used by officers who are knowledgeable, mature in their assessment and therefore we need to take a careful approach.”

She would not be drawn on her own view.

View On Police Oracle

They said they would talk about it in July back in January... it's now September. Why am I not surprised... 🙄

[Mac7 808]

While I am interested in this, I'm also sceptical that they'll allow it. The first time it comes to light an SC draws a taser the national press will be up in arms.

For the most part I'd appreciate the training, and the extra tools in the box. I am however also aware that a lot of regs who haven't had the opportunity to attend a taser course will be somewhat put out.

I would say let them be put out. There seems to be a culture amongst some regular officers that with length of service comes the right to be placed on certain courses. It doesn’t and extra skills and courses should be earned and people placed on them by merit.

I don’t see why specials or probationers shouldn’t be issued taser. We issue batons, cuffs and spray to specials. We also ask them to do everything (almost) that a regular officer does. Why shouldn’t they have taser? The vast majority of the general public can’t distinguish between a special and a regular officer. When the chips are down and an officer is required they should have all the available kit to deal with that incident.

[SD + 714]

7 hours ago, Mac7 said:

 

I would say let them be put out. There seems to be a culture amongst some regular officers that with length of service comes the right to be placed on certain courses. It doesn’t and extra skills and courses should be earned and people placed on them by merit.

I don’t see why specials or probationers shouldn’t be issued taser. We issue batons, cuffs and spray to specials. We also ask them to do everything (almost) that a regular officer does. Why shouldn’t they have taser? The vast majority of the general public can’t distinguish between a special and a regular officer. When the chips are down and an officer is required they should have all the available kit to deal with that incident.

 

Because specials do it for 8 hours a month, regulars do it for 40 hours a week. There for there’s a much greater chance of regulars needing it than a special.

Once all regulars are given the option then I’ll support specials getting it.

[Beaker 817]

Because specials do it for 8 hours a month, regulars do it for 40 hours a week. There for there’s a much greater chance of regulars needing it than a special.
Once all regulars are given the option then I’ll support specials getting it.

A foot In both camps here. Train SCs as long as it doesn't cause regs to not get training. We can do weekends and fill in open spots. I do think every patrol should have at least one Taser though. So if I was working with a Reg I would expect them yo carry unless they didn't want to. If I was working on my own I'd prefer to have the gear.

[ParochialYokal 1,119]

I don’t think that this should be seen in terms of Regulars and Specials.

Rather, anyone whom has achieved Independent Patrol Status should be offered a Taser course.

The reality is that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of Specials are probably not in that place.

[Growley + 2,436]

A foot In both camps here. Train SCs as long as it doesn't cause regs to not get training. We can do weekends and fill in open spots. I do think every patrol should have at least one Taser though. So if I was working with a Reg I would expect them yo carry unless they didn't want to. If I was working on my own I'd prefer to have the gear.

Screw them not wanting to. If they're not prepared to carry the kit they might need to save their own or their colleagues' lives, they need to take a look at themselves.

[Growley + 2,436]

I don’t think that this should be seen in terms of Regulars and Specials.

Rather, anyone whom has achieved Independent Patrol Status should be offered a Taser course.

The reality is that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of Specials are probably not in that place.

If we want to go pie in the sky and talk about how it should be, then use of equipment such as taser and firearms should be a mandatory part of basic training like it is in most other countries.

It's absolute nonsense that we put new cops out on the street, send them to all the same dangerous calls as their more experienced colleagues, but withold certain equipment because apparently they can't be trusted yet.

[TheMoo 66]

10 hours ago, Stormy102 said:

They said they would talk about it in July back in January... it's now September. Why am I not surprised... 🙄

I think, if anything, I'd support NPCC endorsing it to allow the individual forces to make their own decision on whether or not it's needed in their force.

One thing I would note is that the NPCC chief's quote in the article above (whether it's an excerpt or the whole, I don't know), talks entirely about public perception and public confidence; and doesn't mention anything about officer safety. I appreciate that public faith in the police is important; but if there is a mechanism (training or performance reviews or otherwise) by which Regulars can be assessed as being "officers who are knowledgeable, mature in their assessment"; surely that can be ported across to ensure that any Special going for the course meets the same standard (like I have to do with every other use of force option available to me). 

[Stormy102 29]

18 hours ago, TheMoo said:

I think, if anything, I'd support NPCC endorsing it to allow the individual forces to make their own decision on whether or not it's needed in their force.

One thing I would note is that the NPCC chief's quote in the article above (whether it's an excerpt or the whole, I don't know), talks entirely about public perception and public confidence; and doesn't mention anything about officer safety. I appreciate that public faith in the police is important; but if there is a mechanism (training or performance reviews or otherwise) by which Regulars can be assessed as being "officers who are knowledgeable, mature in their assessment"; surely that can be ported across to ensure that any Special going for the course meets the same standard (like I have to do with every other use of force option available to me). 

You would hope so. The Taser training course isn't exactly a breeze and Specials are just as vulnerable as Regulars. I wish every force was like Hampshire, with every frontline officer who wants a Taser receiving one...

[Ether + 1,432]

 No reason specials who pass the course could not have taser, after all Military Reservists manage to qualify to be armed.