Met police firearms

[Fedster + 1,307]

Taser trained officers are now permitted to go out single crewed following Fed consultation.

Officers are being trained to use Taser when single crewed.

The move in West Yorkshire follows a successful Police Federation consultation in conjunction with officers.

Nick Smart, Chairman of West Yorkshire Police Federation said: "I'm really pleased that following negotiations and discussions with the Chief Officer Team, the deployment policy is being changed to allow this to happen.

"It is really important that double crewed units remain the foundation of our capability, but we now have the scope to single crew Taser officers or crew them with non-Taser officers”.

West Yorkshire Police Federation conducted a Taser and Firearms survey last summer which found 86 per cent agreed that frontline officers should be issued with Taser, and 80 per cent disclosed they would feel safer if all frontline officers routinely carried the device.

Almost all (90 per cent) of WYP officers who responded stated they should be issued with Taser. And 86 per cent said they would feel safer if they had access to the weapon.

The findings were used to change the way the force deploys Taser, feeding into the national “Protect the Protectors” campaign to improve officer safety.

WYP Assistant Chief Constable Andy Battle said: "As a Chief Officer team, we have listened to the feedback and we are now changing the way in which we deploy Taser.

"So in addition to the ARV's who routinely carry Taser and the specially trained units, we are also now going to deploy officers who are trained in Taser to go out single crewed.”

"This will offer additional capability and capacity to deal with the issues that happen out on the streets of West Yorkshire."

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[Radman + 2,163]

I love how WYP is promoting this... We in BTP have been allowed to carry taser single crewed since it' introduction - the force rightly put it down to individual officers as to when they can carry and deploy operationally.

Taser is just another PPE tool at the end of the day, I never understood why the home office went down the route of inspector authority and double crewing to begin with.

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

I'd have thought that if any unit needed a tazer it'd be a single crewed,  not double crewed one.

[SimonT + 1,185]

I'm taser, frequently single crewed. As above, seems odd this is suddenly allowed. 

[MerseyLLB 8,426]

So in WYP were the taser cars kept barley from lengthy jobs so they were able to deal with risk?

[Zulu 22 + 4,576]

WYP being dragged into the 21st century.

[Policey_Man + 765]

A similar policy change happened in my force about 9 months ago. Prior to that we also mandated double-crewing unless the numbers weren't there.

As said above, BTP and others have been doing single carry for some time, so I hardly see this as news.

Next....

[PCSD 329]

20 hours ago, Radman said:

I love how WYP is promoting this... We in BTP have been allowed to carry taser single crewed since it' introduction - the force rightly put it down to individual officers as to when they can carry and deploy operationally.

Taser is just another PPE tool at the end of the day, I never understood why the home office went down the route of inspector authority and double crewing to begin with.

So if you were single crewed you could choose not to carry Taser for the shift? We were advised if we were Taser authorised we HAD to carry it or surrender our authority card and declare ourselves unfit to carry and we would not have our authority re-instated until we had seen our OHU and Force Taser lead.

20 hours ago, Indiana Jones said:

I'd have thought that if any unit needed a tazer it'd be a single crewed,  not double crewed one.

Taser may reduce the risk of injury (keyword there may) but it makes handcuffing a prisoner a lot more difficult if they're even remotely non-compliant or there are other persons present who may interfere. Not to mention the need for PIP/Scene Management etc. 

Our Force Policy is 'Where possible Taser officers will be double crewed'. I've had a few run ins with supervisors over this where every car apart from me has been double crewed with non Taser officers, every officer would work single crewed but Taser Policy states I should be and yet it actively works the opposite way. 

[Growley + 2,436]

Taser may reduce the risk of injury (keyword there may) but it makes handcuffing a prisoner a lot more difficult if they're even remotely non-compliant or there are other persons present who may interfere. Not to mention the need for PIP/Scene Management etc. 
Our Force Policy is 'Where possible Taser officers will be double crewed'. I've had a few run ins with supervisors over this where every car apart from me has been double crewed with non Taser officers, every officer would work single crewed but Taser Policy states I should be and yet it actively works the opposite way. 

How does taser make handcuffing more difficult? I'm genuinely interested, because I've never had that problem.

[Radman + 2,163]

1 hour ago, PCSD said:

So if you were single crewed you could choose not to carry Taser for the shift? We were advised if we were Taser authorised we HAD to carry it or surrender our authority card and declare ourselves unfit to carry and we would not have our authority re-instated until we had seen our OHU and Force Taser lead.

Taser may reduce the risk of injury (keyword there may) but it makes handcuffing a prisoner a lot more difficult if they're even remotely non-compliant or there are other persons present who may interfere. Not to mention the need for PIP/Scene Management etc. 

Our Force Policy is 'Where possible Taser officers will be double crewed'. I've had a few run ins with supervisors over this where every car apart from me has been double crewed with non Taser officers, every officer would work single crewed but Taser Policy states I should be and yet it actively works the opposite way. 

Yeah I don't draw my Taser every day, it's at my discretion when I take my Taser out - depending on the kind of duties I'll be undertaking I wont always opt to carry it. If you're not carrying it all the time then yeah of course questions will be raised as to why you aren't carrying it but I draw out most shifts now as I find its mere presence tends to de-escalate situations before they start especially in BTP land where we aren't deployed to domestic incidents or griefy residential/neighbour disputes (as my understanding this accounts for most HO taser deployments.)

Drunken people who would ordinarily fight me or become abusive simply won't now - my D&D arrest rate has taken a nose dive since I started carrying Taser and Body Worn cameras - no-one these days wants to overly argue with me and will simply leave or provide details when asked.

24 minutes ago, Growley said:

1 hour ago, PCSD said:

Taser may reduce the risk of injury (keyword there may) but it makes handcuffing a prisoner a lot more difficult if they're even remotely non-compliant or there are other persons present who may interfere. Not to mention the need for PIP/Scene Management etc. 
Our Force Policy is 'Where possible Taser officers will be double crewed'. I've had a few run ins with supervisors over this where every car apart from me has been double crewed with non Taser officers, every officer would work single crewed but Taser Policy states I should be and yet it actively works the opposite way. 

How does taser make handcuffing more difficult? I'm genuinely interested, because I've never had that problem.

If someone is non-compliant and you taser them it can be an issue to close the distance, holster your taser and handcuff them before they come round - that is a valid issue and one that I acknowledge but we have had no real problems in BTP with this as far as my understanding goes.

If the taser works (big if) it is very, very painful - it would take someone heavily under the influence of something or simply in such a disillusioned state to want to continue fighting through that, MOST people will comply with commands to put their arms out and to remain still. Luckily in BTP land if there are no other cops about (which does sometimes happen) I know I can often rely on rail staff to assist me in detentions at my current posting as they have done before during particularly violent arrests of subjects, I wouldn't say it happens on a regular basis but certainly rail staff in my experience (outside of London exclusively) are far more ready, willing and able to assist in the arrest of persons than other members of public (bar off duty military, police or other frontline public service.)

I often view railway staff as an extra pair of hands at incidents if nothing more than to assist in obtaining witness details or moving bothersome people away from me and my colleagues as I deal with an incident - we do have that luxury in BTP.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Radman

[Growley + 2,436]

If someone is non-compliant and you taser them it can be an issue to close the distance, holster your taser and handcuff them before they come round - that is a valid issue and one that I acknowledge but we have had no real problems in BTP with this as far as my understanding goes.
If the taser works (big if) it is very, very painful - it would take someone heavily under the influence of something or simply in such a disillusioned state to want to continue fighting through that, MOST people will comply with commands to put their arms out and to remain still. Luckily in BTP land if there are no other cops about (which does sometimes happen) I know I can often rely on rail staff to assist me in detentions at my current posting as they have done before during particularly violent arrests of subjects, I wouldn't say it happens on a regular basis but certainly rail staff in my experience (outside of London exclusively) are far more ready, willing and able to assist in the arrest of persons than other members of public (bar off duty military, police or other frontline public service.)
I often view railway staff as an extra pair of hands at incidents if nothing more than to assist in obtaining witness details or moving bothersome people away from me and my colleagues as I deal with an incident - we do have that luxury in BTP.

All that is lovely, but it doesn't make handcuffing that violent person more difficult than having to fight them. It's simply one drawback of using a taser.

The biggest reason for not using the X26 single crewed is because you have the issue of not having an extra shot, but nothing about that makes handcuffing more difficult.

[Radman + 2,163]

36 minutes ago, Growley said:

All that is lovely, but it doesn't make handcuffing that violent person more difficult than having to fight them. It's simply one drawback of using a taser.

The biggest reason for not using the X26 single crewed is because you have the issue of not having an extra shot, but nothing about that makes handcuffing more difficult.

Tactical reload if your second shot misses or fails to work you revert to other PPE options such as spray or baton strikes - I don't frankly trust taser to be effective if I ever came to deploying it and this is and always has been in the forefront of my mind when carrying which I believe would allow me to adapt if the shots fail.

I accepted a long time ago that the x26 isn't the be all and end all it was made out to be... Infact if you want to be honest it is more of a psychological tool over here anyway - it makes for a brilliant deterrent but is more likely to fail if actually deployed than work as intended.

Whilst not ideal you have to ensure you keep the distance between the subject and yourself in order for it work and even then it isn't guaranteed. You just need to be mentally prepared for that outcome in a live situation.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Radman

[Growley + 2,436]

Tactical reload if your second shot misses or fails to work you revert to other PPE options such as spray or baton strikes - I don't frankly trust taser to be effective if I ever came to deploying it and this is and always has been in the forefront of my mind when carrying which I believe would allow me to adapt if the shots fail.
I accepted a long time ago that the x26 isn't the be all and end all it was made out to be... Infact if you want to be honest it is more of a psychological tool over here anyway - it makes for a brilliant deterrent but is more likely to fail if actually deployed than work as intended.
Whilst not ideal you have to ensure you keep the distance between the subject and yourself in order for it work and even then it isn't guaranteed. You just need to be mentally prepared for that outcome in a live situation.

Again, I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the point I made. I'm aware of the benefits, drawbacks, and tactics of the X26 and X2 respectively.

[CountyCop + 178]

15 hours ago, Policey_Man said:

A similar policy change happened in my force about 9 months ago. Prior to that we also mandated double-crewing unless the numbers weren't there.

As said above, BTP and others have been doing single carry for some time, so I hardly see this as news.

Next....

We have always been single crewed with Taser much like the BTP, there are not just enough officers to double crew like that all the time.  Bit of a non story really!

[PCSD 329]

3 hours ago, Radman said:

Yeah I don't draw my Taser every day, it's at my discretion when I take my Taser out - depending on the kind of duties I'll be undertaking I wont always opt to carry it. If you're not carrying it all the time then yeah of course questions will be raised as to why you aren't carrying it but I draw out most shifts now as I find its mere presence tends to de-escalate situations before they start especially in BTP land where we aren't deployed to domestic incidents or griefy residential/neighbour disputes (as my understanding this accounts for most HO taser deployments.)

Drunken people who would ordinarily fight me or become abusive simply won't now - my D&D arrest rate has taken a nose dive since I started carrying Taser and Body Worn cameras - no-one these days wants to overly argue with me and will simply leave or provide details when asked.

Interesting - obvious difference in policy that you can choose as and when to carry. I've found the same with BWV though, public order offence arrests have gone down massively when people see themselves on BWV when it's activated. I haven't been carrying long enough yet to notice any difference with Taser. 

 

3 hours ago, Growley said:

5 hours ago, PCSD said:

Taser may reduce the risk of injury (keyword there may) but it makes handcuffing a prisoner a lot more difficult if they're even remotely non-compliant or there are other persons present who may interfere. Not to mention the need for PIP/Scene Management etc. 
Our Force Policy is 'Where possible Taser officers will be double crewed'. I've had a few run ins with supervisors over this where every car apart from me has been double crewed with non Taser officers, every officer would work single crewed but Taser Policy states I should be and yet it actively works the opposite way. 

How does taser make handcuffing more difficult? I'm genuinely interested, because I've never had that problem.

Apologies, @Growley and @Radmanreading my post back I wasn't as clear as I could have. I mean't being single crewed and carrying Taser makes handcuffing/controlling subjects and others harder than it need be compared to the same situation and being double crewed.