Met police firearms

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Nick Hurd demanded forces 'tell us what you're spending it on'.

Policing Minister Nick Hurd

 

Future funding settlements will depend upon police efficiency and transparency about reserves, the policing minister said today.

Labour opposition failed to prevent the England and Wales 2018/19 grant settlement, which shadow policing minister Louise Haigh said represented an eighth consecutive year of real terms cuts, getting rubber-stamped at parliament today.

Policing Minister Nick Hurd was challenged repeatedly over his claims the settlement represented a £450 million increase in funding, with Ms Haigh saying it would not give police a single extra penny after inflation and other factors had been accounted for.

Mr Hurd accused the police of not being open enough about how they are using police reserves and called for a massive reduction in the amount of money forces are putting away for a rainy day.

“The fact is the police system is sitting on reserves of about £1.6billion,” he said.

“And what we are pressing for in the interests of the taxpayer is for greater accountability and transparency about how that public money is going to be used.

“To my eyes there is insufficient transparency around how that money is going to be used.

"It remains an awkward fact that police have increased their reserves by over a quarter of a million pounds. That is public money that has not been used.

“Tell us what you’re going to spend it on.”

He said basic contingency reserves should be three to five per cent of basic revenue but the total reserves are currently about 15 per cent.  

“Clearly the level of police reserves go above what might be reasonably expected in terms of pure contingency revenue. That is fine as long as there is a good explanation to the public," he said.

“This settlement under the very constrained finances we have is a fair and comprehensive settlement and represents an increase of a billion compared to where we were in 2015.

“We are confident that the police have the resources they need to do the job.”  

Mr Hurd added the 2019/20 settlement will depend upon progress by police forces in improving proactivity, financial efficiency and improving transparency about financial reserves.

Several MPs pointed out that police and crime commissioners across the length and breadth of the land are hiking up council tax precepts to cover funding shortfalls, meaning local taxpayers are picking up the bill.

Yvette Cooper, chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee said: “The real term squeeze on the core funding for the police forces from central government is a real concern for forces across the country.

“Given that there are now changing patterns of crime not just a rise again in violent crime but also online fraud also different kinds of pressures on the support for vulnerable people and we have forces telling us that 95 per cent of online fraud cases were simply not being investigated at all.

“Isn’t he worried in his heart of hearts that he is simply not providing enough money for police to keep people safe?”

Ms Haigh said officers “are tired of warm words backed up with no action from politicians.

“Today those officers are under sustained pressure the like of which the service has rarely if ever encountered and today we have heard there is not a single extra penny from central government on those local police forces,” she added.

Her party she said, has “no choice” but to vote against the grant.

She said: “On becoming home secretary the now prime minister told police their only mission was to cut crime, no more and no less.

“But 83 per cent of calls to command centres are non- crime related

“Last year on average the Met police took on average one mental health call every five minutes.

“Tonight we will be voting against a completely inappropriate funding settlement that leaves our communities exposed and the public at risk.”

Mr Hurd responded: “I am not going to take any messages from Labour MPs at this time continuing to distort the truth that someone else will always pay.”

He said communities are happy to pay extra to support their local police and the grant settlement responded positively to feedback from officers and police and crime commissioners during his tour visiting every force in the country.

But he acknowledged there is “no doubt” demand on police is rising and is changing.

“The demand on the police has risen and its risen in areas of greater complexity and so resource intensity.

“We are clear that we are seeing an increase in high impact violent crime which is concerning to us all.

“I am not standing here pretending everything is rosy in the world of policing, they are working in a very challenging set of circumstances. What I am doing is announcing how we’re going to increase investment.”

He also paid tribute to the bravery British police demonstrated during the 2017 terror attacks and the daily risks rank-and-file officers face in the line of duty.  

“Of course those who work in this parliament must never forget the ultimate sacrifice paid by PC Keith Palmer as he stepped forward to protect us in the line of duty.

“We also know from out constituencies that on every day and in every force police officers take risks, sometimes extraordinary. ones to protect the public.”  

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[MerseyLLB 8,426]

If you constantly had unexpected outgoings in life, were told you're not getting a pay rise at work, your general expenses went up and then your employer said 'yea but why you got savings?' What would you say?!?

[Pavillion 43]

2 hours ago, MerseyLLB said:

If you constantly had unexpected outgoings in life, were told you're not getting a pay rise at work, your general expenses went up and then your employer said 'yea but why you got savings?' What would you say?!?

The savings are not personal earnings. You are arguing a point of contention that does not exist.

[Mac7 808]

If you constantly had unexpected outgoings in life, were told you're not getting a pay rise at work, your general expenses went up and then your employer said 'yea but why you got savings?' What would you say?!?

What Mersey is saying is exactly what accounting reserves are I.e retained earnings. Put simply, money for a rainy day.

I struggle to see how there is a lack of transparency as police budgets are at the scrutiny of the HMIC. Every PCC office has a Chief Financial officer to oversea budgets and financial transactions. If forces want to commit to large financial transactions they have to seek approval from the PCC. Who is ultimately accountable to the public and ministers.

Then we have audits. Every private organisation must have their accounts audited (scrutinised in detail) by independent companies. I’m sure the same is of public organisations. Any errors or accounting anomalies must be put right or justified.

On top of all that there are accounting rules, standards, procedures, even laws that must be adhered to. How much more transparency do they want?

Forces need reserves. If you disagree. Have a look at the battle Andy Burnham is having with central government over asking them to contribute to the eye watering costs incurred as a result of the MEN arena terror attack.

[IrateShrike + 1,847]

Hurd is demanding that forces state what they will spend the money on, when he already knows it is money retained for unpredictable costs.

[Mac7 808]

Hurd is demanding that forces state what they will spend the money on, when he already knows it is money retained for unpredictable costs.

All taken care off in their published accounts. I’m not sure his background but Hurd appears out of touch with very basic corporate principles you would expect someone to have who holds high office.

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5 hours ago, Pavillion said:

The savings are not personal earnings. You are arguing a point of contention that does not exist.

Is there a point you want to make about the topic at hand or are you just being your typical goady self?

[SD + 688]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Hurd is demanding that forces state what they will spend the money on, when he already knows it is money retained for unpredictable costs.

That’s him all over. Perhaps they should have a ‘rainy day’ column on the spread sheet. At least it’s been ‘accounted for’ or perhaps we should do what the NHS does and blow the lot then go over budget.

[MerseyLLB 8,426]

On 08/02/2018 at 16:01, Pavillion said:

The savings are not personal earnings. You are arguing a point of contention that does not exist.

It's a perfectly sound analogy...it's not a direct comparison?