New Met police video

[Fedster + 1,307]

The incident was filmed by onlookers.

Jurors were shown distressing footage of a man’s final moments as he was arrested by plain clothed police at an inquest into his death today.

Bedford man Karl Brunner, 48,  was confirmed dead at Bedford Hospital on May 11, 2016 following a stop and search by officers during which he swallowed what was believed to have been a large quantity of Class A drugs and lost consciousness in Midland Road, Bedford.

Three officers were served with gross misconduct notices and put under criminal investigation in June 2016 in connection with the incident. 

The jury, of two women and nine men, were shown clips of Body Worn Video footage from two of the officers involved, CCTV recordings and video from a mobile phone uploaded to YouTube.

In the Body Worn Camera footage plain clothed officers are seen leaving a white van and walking through Bedford town centre and then breaking into a run as they spot a group of men ahead.

One of the officers can be heard shouting: “Karl, stay where you are. Give me your hands,” and a man responding: “Let go of me, let go of me,” and what appears to be a struggle between the officers and the man.

The officers can be heard shouting: “Spit it out Karl,” and then “what did you do that for” before repeatedly telling him to relax and informing him they are putting his hands behind his back.

But the tone changes as the officers start calling his name, patting his face and say “listen up, Karl”, “stay with us” and eventually “he’s not breathing, get him into recovery [position]”.

The officers can be seen frantically pumping Mr Brunner’s chest in the pouring rain and asking his friends what he had taken.

Mr Brunner's face was shown with what looks like blood around his mouth as the officers call out and ask if anyone has a face shield.

Eventually one of Mr Brunner's friends is heard admitting the “massive white ball” he swallowed may have been heroin but that they could not be sure.

As paramedics arrive, two of the male officers continue to perform CPR for several moments.

One of the paramedics can be heard telling the officers “bits” that had come out of Karl’s mouth were in fact his teeth.

After the paramedics take over the medical treatment, a senior female officer arrives on scene and tells the plain clothes officers to go back to nearby Greyfriars police station and focus on writing up their first accounts “while it’s still fresh in your mind.”

“It’s soaking wet, I can’t even write any notes at the moment.

“I don’t know who’s going to be there, who’s going to want the gossip. Don’t be seen to be doing that,” she advises them.

The inquest continues.

View On Police Oracle

[Pete 1,492]

Police officers shouted at man to "relax" moments before he died under restraint http://bit.ly/2AIFWZk  #POLCOM

 

why are you spreading articles about police with sensationalist phrases on twitter?

is there not enough of that about without you doing it too? has the forum been taken over by the daily mail?

why not put “man swallows large amount of drugs when stopped by police and dies” ?

[Fedster + 1,307]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Police officers shouted at man to "relax" moments before he died under restraint http://bit.ly/2AIFWZk  #POLCOM

 

why are you spreading articles about police with sensationalist phrases on twitter?

is there not enough of that about without you doing it too? has the forum been taken over by the daily mail?

why not put “man swallows large amount of drugs when stopped by police and dies” ?

Headline is from police oracle which is quite clearly not the dm or anything like it.

[Sceptre + 2,710]

Nor is it all that sensationalist as it makes it fairly clear to the average reader that Brunner was likely fighting with officers around the time of his death.

Given this is at least the second recent death from people swallowing items, does a bit more time and thought needs to be put into the subject during officer safety training both around tactics most likely to prevent it while posing the least risk to the subject and also first aid for the choking casualty? Are there bits of kit we could carry to prevent it or remove foreign bodies from the mouth or airway?

[Hyphen + 693]

I can appreciate that it is from Police Oracle but as with many of these articles it is an utterly pathetic headline.

Same old story, Police try to stop suspect, suspect swallows object (believed to be drugs) and then struggles with police until he Sadly dies.

And there is nothing wrong with saying relax, or calm down or anything like that. I would expect that sort of thing during a struggle.

There is always a anti police tone with these things. Instead of looking to blame cops here why don’t we look at the real issue of the person who ultimately killed themselves rather than do what they were told.

It gets to a point where enough is enough with these silly articles and blaming everyone else.

[Hyphen + 693]

1 minute ago, Sceptre said:

Nor is it all that sensationalist as it makes it fairly clear to the average reader that Brunner was likely fighting with officers around the time of his death.

Given this is at least the second recent death from people swallowing items, does a bit more time and thought needs to be put into the subject during officer safety training both around tactics most likely to prevent it while posing the least risk to the subject and also first aid for the choking casualty? Are there bits of kit we could carry to prevent it or remove foreign bodies from the mouth or airway?

It is a good point you raise, I would certainly never want someone to die on my watch or get hurt for that matter but there is absolutely no chance I would be putting my hands near enough to try and fish out objects from someone’s mouth. It carries far too much danger.

The advice for choking would need to be followed and an ambulance on the hurry up. It’s difficult though if the casualty decides to continue fighting/struggling with you.

[Mac7 808]

It is a good point you raise, I would certainly never want someone to die on my watch or get hurt for that matter but there is absolutely no chance I would be putting my hands near enough to try and fish out objects from someone’s mouth. It carries far too much danger.
The advice for choking would need to be followed and an ambulance on the hurry up. It’s difficult though if the casualty decides to continue fighting/struggling with you.

Checking someone’s mouth and removing foreign objects is one of the first things you do when performing CPR.

I’ve had a person put drugs into their mouth and attempt to swallow them during a stop search. Most cops (including me) go for the throat to prevent the person swallowing the item. I’m not sure if this is a reflex or something people have learnt through experience. Either way it isn’t a taught technique. My crew mate at the time used an incredibly useful technique that I have never seen taught so I won’t go into it on here but within a fraction of the second the person had their mouth and open and the drugs were out. Perhaps there is a gap in the OST manual that needs addressing.

The article makes interesting reading. First of all I feel for the officers going through this ordeal. But it reads like the officers (so far) did everything they could and were professional.

[Pete 1,492]

1 hour ago, Sceptre said:

Nor is it all that sensationalist as it makes it fairly clear to the average reader that Brunner was likely fighting with officers around the time of his death.

well, it is. it’s deliberately phrased in order to be dramatic and associate in the readers mind the officers shouting and the restraint with his death rather than just presenting the facts as known which could very well be that the restraint had nothing to do with it.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Pete

[David + 4,981]

In any event, what else are they gong to shout? 'Tense up and struggle'?

It is about time senior officers darn well stood up and told the public how it was instead of hiding meekly behind a desk from time to time promising 'lessons will be learned'.

[Pete 1,492]

38 minutes ago, Mac7 said:

 

I’ve had a person put drugs into their mouth and attempt to swallow them during a stop search. Most cops (including me) go for the throat to prevent the person swallowing the item. I’m not sure if this is a reflex or something people have learnt through experience. Either way it isn’t a taught technique. My crew mate at the time used an incredibly useful technique that I have never seen taught so I won’t go into it on here but within a fraction of the second the person had their mouth and open and the drugs were out. Perhaps there is a gap in the OST manual that needs addressing.
 

 

 

not sure if it’s what your mate did but ive seen a cop in the USA stick his baton in a suspects mouth and applied pressure to the inside of the cheek forcing the suspects jaw down so he couldn’t swallow. 

it looked terrible but it worked magnificently 

 

[Mac7 808]

not sure if it’s what your mate did but ive seen a cop in the USA stick his baton in a suspects mouth and applied pressure to the inside of the cheek forcing the suspects jaw down so he couldn’t swallow. 
it looked terrible but it worked magnificently 
 

[emoji15][emoji15] is wasn’t that.

[Hyphen + 693]

42 minutes ago, Mac7 said:

 

 

Checking someone’s mouth and removing foreign objects is one of the first things you do when performing CPR.

I’ve had a person put drugs into their mouth and attempt to swallow them during a stop search. Most cops (including me) go for the throat to prevent the person swallowing the item. I’m not sure if this is a reflex or something people have learnt through experience. Either way it isn’t a taught technique. My crew mate at the time used an incredibly useful technique that I have never seen taught so I won’t go into it on here but within a fraction of the second the person had their mouth and open and the drugs were out. Perhaps there is a gap in the OST manual that needs addressing.

The article makes interesting reading. First of all I feel for the officers going through this ordeal. But it reads like the officers (so far) did everything they could and were professional.

 

 

Sorry, I was meaning if the obstruction was actually in the windpipe. You can do more harm than good and also if someone bit down you would likely lose fingers.

Totally agree though, the instinct usually is to go for the throat to try and prevent the item being swallowed where possible.

[obsidian_eclipse + 1,202]

CPR is a different kettle of fish entirely. In those circumstances a person isn't trying to attack you and for the most part just flop about. Trying to stick your fingers in someone's mouth whilst they're gnashing their teeth at you is just asking for hepatitis and the loss of your trigger finger.

 

 

[Shmook + 532]

How about we rename spit hoods to something like 'survival bags'? 

Rebranding means we could all get issued them, and they become a multi-role piece of kit and the public will then love us as we stop all these sweet misunderstood bastions of society accidentally choking or consuming their medicine... 

 

[Member of Public + 206]

This is disgusting, they've effectively been served with gross misconduct notices for doing their job. I don't understand what else they could have done?