Jump to content
Account Notice
  • To post a recruitment query in the "Recruitment Areas" or in the "Force Specific Areas" you will require a Recruitment Pass or a Membership Package. Click HERE to read more.
  • Your Account Is Currently Limited

Disable-Adblock.png

We have detected that your browser is using AdBlock

Police Community is a not for profit organisation and advertising revenue is key to our continued viability.

Please disable your AdBlocker on our site in order to continue using it.
This message will disappear once AdBlock has been disabled.

Thank you for your support - we appreciate it !

If you feel you are getting this message in error please email support@policecommunity.co.uk

Alf Ventress

Thoughts?? Bike theft/civil??

Recommended Posts

Alf Ventress

John imports the chassis for a motorcycle and registers it with the DVLA. It is a work in progress and resulted in the chassis ONLY (no engine) being stored at a friends warehouse for 3 years +.

John has the V5 but forgets about a he bike for 3 years and his friends warehouse goes bump but no one thinks to move the bike at all.

3 years later John gets a letter for DVLA informing him that someone is trying to register the bike (let’s assume it has now been competed and has an engine).

John contacts police who advice him to speak to DVLA.

Bike has now been reregistered in new ‘keepers’ name in different part of the country.

No idea when it left the abandoned warehouse, no idea how many hands it’s been through..no CCTV and due to time scale no realistic way of tracking the time/date etc.

Criminal? Civil? John now wants the bike (which he admits he ‘forgot about’) back or at least the chassis?? New owner of fully built bike doesn’t wish to return it due to work completed and cost of this.

Thoughts??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


Beaker

Civil really I would suggest. The frame was effectively abandoned. The new keeper has spent money and time sorting the restoration. I wouldn't hold out much hope though, the 'forgot about it for 3 years' would indicate that it has been abandoned, and as there was no tax or reg plates the person who took it can claim it.

 

Also after a quick check. If you want the frame back you might be able to. Minus any costs incurred relating to storage and removal. The person who rebuilt it could also claim labour costs related to building and stripping it, along with the cost of any parts that aren't reusable after removal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Reasonable Man

Theft.
Maybe not by the person now in possession of the frame but John is the owner of property and that has been taken without his permission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Mac7

What do you mean by the warehouse “going bump?”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Indiana Jones

I Don't know enough about it, but does John still have to declare it SORN annually or is that only once it's a viable vehicle with a reg no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Alf Ventress

It was SORN up until reregistered by new keeper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Indiana Jones

Civil. Not theft as no dishonesty, but the fact that the new keeper had refused to return it when they are only the RK and not the legal owner doesn't help them.

Money spent on the bike is irrelevant to the original owner. The new RK could pursue for damages against whomever sold it to them.

I'd see if the DVLA will revoke the reg no so it can't be used and get it re-registered to me as the original owner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Reasonable Man
Civil. Not theft as no dishonesty, but the fact that the new keeper had refused to return it when they are only the RK and not the legal owner doesn't help them.
Money spent on the bike is irrelevant to the original owner. The new RK could pursue for damages against whomever sold it to them.
I'd see if the DVLA will revoke the reg no so it can't be used and get it re-registered to me as the original owner.

How can you say there was no dishonesty?
John owns property. Now someone else is using it claiming to be the owner. Maybe the person now in possession has not acted dishonestly but without knowing how it got into his possession no one can say if anyone has been dishonest along the way.
Record a theft with John as the victim and investigate. When all the facts that can be established are known make a decision as to whether there is a case. Anything else is cuffing/ lazy policing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

BlueBob
34 minutes ago, Reasonable Man said:


How can you say there was no dishonesty?
John owns property. Now someone else is using it claiming to be the owner. Maybe the person now in possession has not acted dishonestly but without knowing how it got into his possession no one can say if anyone has been dishonest along the way.
Record a theft with John as the victim and investigate. When all the facts that can be established are known make a decision as to whether there is a case. Anything else is cuffing/ lazy policing.

Not sure the OP is asking if it should be crimes or not, rather if it’s theft or not.

as for the OP, as the relationship between John and his friend breaks down and time lapses, the extent of dishonesty would seem to reduce - assuming but not shown in the OP,  that thefriend makes some ends to trace / track the friend with negative results.  Not really an option to go to DVLA as predume the chassis has no index number and not everyone would know or look for a VIN

on balance it’s a civil matter rather than theft - depends on more info to get to the crux of the dishonesty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Reasonable Man
- depends on more info to get to the crux of the dishonesty

Exactly - that's my point and without investigating it then 'the police' won't know. Hence immediately saying it's civil without getting more info is cuffing it.
What if:
A. A year after John last saw his frame the friend thinks, 'that John always does this, has a good idea but never follows through. I'm fed up of him dumping his stuff on me.' Then sells the frame on eBay? Or
B. When the warehouse was left without a tenant someone broke in and took a few things including the frame? Or
C. When the warehouse was repossessed from John's friend he was told that everything of value would be sold in lieu of rent owed. He knows the frame is worth a bit so leaves it there knowing it will reduce his debt?
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Mac7

From a text book point of view it is theft and reasonable man is right. It’s theft at the point when the new keeper realises it is not his property and won’t give it back. After all, John has the V5 and can prove ownership. This is similar to the fuel scenario with that pesky rascal - Bob.

However, from an investigative point of view I would need to know how it has come into the new keepers possession and i would need to see the documentation relating to the sale of the warehouse.


The RPOC for John is very slim and I would hope in the real world that the police suggest a civil resolution before we would took it any further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


Alf Ventress

Thanks for the replies...nothing ‘lazy’ as suggested! It has been crimed. It has split the office and further info (re how it got into new keeper hands) is due once holiday period is over and checks can be done as they are opposite end of the country. Always nice to get a fresh set of eyes though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Sierra Lima

No realistic prospects of securing a conviction. Don't waste more resources. NFA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Reasonable Man
No realistic prospects of securing a conviction. Don't waste more resources. NFA.

That's what I mean by the lazy approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


About us

Police Community was originally founded in 2014 by two serving Police Officers.

In 2016 it was incorporated as a limited company called RAW Digital Media Limited and then purchased 3 other forums; Police Specials, UK Police Online and Police UK to form the largest policing discussion forum network in the UK.

Get in touch

  • 20-22 Wenlock Road, London N1 7GU
  • contact@rawdigitalmedia.co.uk
  • 0844 357 0111
  • Forums In Our Group - Police.Community - UKPoliceOnline.CO.UK - PoliceSpecials.COM - PoliceUK.COM

Twitter

Facebook

    Meet The Team

  • Chief Bakes
    Chief Bakes Management
  • Chief Rat
    Chief Rat Management
  • Chief Cheetah
    Chief Cheetah Management
  • Rocket
    Rocket Global Moderators
  • David
    David Global Moderators
  • Fedster
    Fedster Global Moderators
  • Devil
    Devil Global Moderators
  • MindTheGap
    MindTheGap Global Moderators
  • Techie1
    Techie1 Global Moderators
  • Sir Penguin
    Sir Penguin Global Moderators
  • XA84
    XA84 Global Moderators
  • Remmy
    Remmy Global Moderators
  • PCW
    PCW Global Moderators
  • blakey
    blakey Global Moderators
  • job_done
    job_done Global Moderators
  • Hoofing
    Hoofing Global Moderators
×