Jump to content
Account Notice
  • To post a recruitment query in the "Recruitment Areas" or in the "Force Specific Areas" you will require a Recruitment Pass or a Membership Package. Click HERE to read more.
  • Your Account Is Currently Limited

Disable-Adblock.png

We have detected that your browser is using AdBlock

Police Community is a not for profit organisation and advertising revenue is key to our continued viability.

Please disable your AdBlocker on our site in order to continue using it.
This message will disappear once AdBlock has been disabled.

Thank you for your support - we appreciate it !

If you feel you are getting this message in error please email support@policecommunity.co.uk

Chaos

Attempt suicide, scene and powers of seizure

Recommended Posts

Chaos

 
Bob texts his ex partner stating that he is going to kill himself.
 
Ambo attends and sees Bob on the floor in the living room.
 
Police called and door forced.
 
Bop is semi conscious and on search of the house police find a number of empty tablet blister packs as well as a failed attempt to hang himself from a loft.
 
Bob is taken away by ambo to hospital under the mental capacity act.
 
Police keep house as a scene and get CSI out straight away.
 
Bob is poorly and it's unknown if Bob is likely to prove so Police / CSI take potos of the scene, seize the rope from the loft and Bob's mobile phone. (Just in case)
 
What power does the police / CSI have to keep the house as a scene and seize items like the phone that Bob sent the message from?
 
 
 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


Mac7

More to the point- Has Bob paid for his petrol yet??

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

SimonT

I came across something simple and did some digging and made some enquiries. It basically boiled down it it being something that the police do. Part of the police responsibility to investigate and secure evidence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Chaos
More to the point- Has Bob paid for his petrol yet??
Haha.... No... The stress of it all has made him do something silly..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Chaos
I came across something simple and did some digging and made some enquiries. It basically boiled down it it being something that the police do. Part of the police responsibility to investigate and secure evidence. 
Bob on floor taking an overdose - enter under sec 17 PACE life and limb.

Take Bob to hospital - MCA.....

Seize Bob's phone... Sec 19 PACE????

Bob hasn't committed any offences and as far as I know police use section 19 as part of seizing evidence that relates to an offence.

Only if Bob proves is the you act on behalf of the coroner and have the power to seize items. Or am I wrong...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

SimonT

I would put it down as a serious incident which requires police investigation. 

If we have felt the need to make it a scene then some of note must be going on. Proportionate to scene? Probably. a

How about powers to enforce a non terror cordon? Generally it's because it's what we have and are expected  do. 

Edited by SimonT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Mac7

Do you suspect foul play? I’m unsure why you would be seizing phones and have CSI’s out for a failed suicide attempt, after all he isn’t dead yet.

 

However, the cops would have entered under s.17 Pace so they are lawfully on premises. But, like SimonT has correctly pointed out the police have a duty under common law to investigate. The scene and seizure of evidence could fall under this.

 

The scenario is very similar to major crime scenes particularly in dwelling when you have a victim(s) but no offender. The gold standard would be a s.8 Pace warrant but I can’t imagine a scenario where the cops would withdraw from a scene, obtain a warrant then re-enter. All covered under a common law duty to investigate.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

SimonT

Generally I complete the form 352A-

"because we is 50, do u get me!" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Sceptre

I'm not sure there is one. If it's not in question that it's a suicide then it's a given that we're seizing these items for the coroner's investigation rather our own, but the Coroners & Justice Act 2009 only contains powers of seizure for coroners in the course of their enquiries, and our powers of seizure both statutory and common law are all to do with offences. That's not to say we can't necessarily do it, but it doesn't fit neatly into any of our day-to-day powers.

Crime scenes, terrorism aside, are maintained under common law powers which have never been written into statute - effectively where we need to put a scene on in the course of our duties for whatever reason, be it a murder or to stop people walking past a rickety fence, then we can do so and use obstruction offences to deal with those who don't respect it. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Lone Wolf

S8 PACE warrant required in normal circumstances but you wouldn't get one if all that was under investigation was a potential suicide with no crime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Chaos

The ways and means act then

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Jeebs

I too don’t am in the list of people who don’t understand why CSI would attend for an attempted suicide where there’s no suspicion of any outside involvement.

I would be seizing items for the coroner if there should be an inquest however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


Chaos
I too don’t am in the list of people who don’t understand why CSI would attend for an attempted suicide where there’s no suspicion of any outside involvement.
I would be seizing items for the coroner if there should be an inquest however.
I know... That's why I asked the question.... But this is what happeneds on a regular basis... It's a logistical "just in case" kinda policy... So if the attempted suicide does die a day later we haven't lost all the continuity and evidence for the inquest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Jeebs

@chaos4122 we had a hanging where the Sgt. tasked Soco, scene mapping etc. When they turned up, they asked what was suspicious, he replied nothing and they turned around and said “your problem, see you later” got back in their vans and drove off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

stewie_griffin

Under these circs we would do virtually nothing. Our CSI don't attend suicides or attempted suicides. Our version of CID wouldn't attend.

A supervisor (sergeant) would show up, EMS would take the poor fellow (and his phone) to hospital. Someone would write a short report and try to contact a relative. The main issue would be the damage to the door.

And that would be that.

 

No wonder you guys are short of manpower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


About us

Police Community was originally founded in 2014 by two serving Police Officers.

In 2016 it was incorporated as a limited company called RAW Digital Media Limited and then purchased 3 other forums; Police Specials, UK Police Online and Police UK to form the largest policing discussion forum network in the UK.

Get in touch

  • 20-22 Wenlock Road, London N1 7GU
  • contact@rawdigitalmedia.co.uk
  • 0844 357 0111
  • Forums In Our Group - Police.Community - UKPoliceOnline.CO.UK - PoliceSpecials.COM - PoliceUK.COM

Twitter

Facebook

    Meet The Team

  • Chief Bakes
    Chief Bakes Management
  • Chief Rat
    Chief Rat Management
  • Chief Cheetah
    Chief Cheetah Management
  • Rocket
    Rocket Global Moderators
  • David
    David Global Moderators
  • Fedster
    Fedster Global Moderators
  • Devil
    Devil Global Moderators
  • MindTheGap
    MindTheGap Global Moderators
  • Techie1
    Techie1 Global Moderators
  • Sir Penguin
    Sir Penguin Global Moderators
  • XA84
    XA84 Global Moderators
  • Remmy
    Remmy Global Moderators
  • PCW
    PCW Global Moderators
  • blakey
    blakey Global Moderators
  • job_done
    job_done Global Moderators
  • Hoofing
    Hoofing Global Moderators
×