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04amh

Would you arrest somebody for possession of FARB Gel?

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04amh

Hi all,

As I have previously mentioned in other posts, I am a piano teacher, and I have been looking for ways to protect myself.

One solution that I have come across, is FARB Gel

However, I have heard conflicting reports on its legality. I called 101 about a week ago, and was told that it wouldn't be a firearm, however, I would be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon if caught with it. It was explained to me that, if I were carrying it, it would be obvious that I have the intent to use it as there would otherwise be no legitimate reason to carry one.

I then contacted my local police station, who told me that it would be completely legal to carry, as the dye is merely beetroot juice. However, if an officer suspected that I had modified it (ie, replaced the beetroot juice with irritants), then I would be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon, or possibly s5 of the firearms act.

To give a bit of background and context to this. If you were to find this on me, it would be during daytime and I would be wearing a suit along with carrying all my needed books and teaching resources. I have never been arrested/searched/questioned etc, nor do I have a record. The FARB Gel would be on a retractable lanyard clipped to my inside blazer pocket, and the FARB Gel would be still sealed.

 

I'm very confused. I have made the judgement that it is legal to carry (well, at least the officers in my borough are happy for me to carry it) as long as it is clear that it hasn't been modified (ie, it is still sealed).

 

Any thoughts? Would you arrest me for it? Have you ever come across anything like this before?

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Rocket

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Cathedral Bobby

It is an identifier and currently advertised widely and sold legally and is issued to some local authority wardens. Basically it is a colorant and takes several days to wear off. I have never heard of any legal restrictions in carrying it.

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Mac7

From the limited research I have done on the item, it would seem it is legal to carry it. So in answer to your question, no I would not arrest you for possession of it. It looks similar to a smart water type system that sprays perpetrators.

 

However, I explained in my other post related to this topic that I can't see the need to carry it. If you are that paranoid you either need to stop working in the areas you are currently or see someone about possible mental health.

 

While this may be legal to carry you run the risk of using it improperly and damaging someone's clothes/assaulting someone. Don't waste your money. If you came to see me at work I would say it was legal but would advise you not to carry it.

 

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04amh
9 minutes ago, Mac7 said:

From the limited research I have done on the item, it would seem it is legal to carry it. So in answer to your question, no I would not arrest you for possession of it. It looks similar to a smart water type system that sprays perpetrators.

 

However, I explained in my other post related to this topic that I can't see the need to carry it. If you are that paranoid you either need to stop working in the areas you are currently or see someone about possible mental health.

 

While this may be legal to carry you run the risk of using it improperly and damaging someone's clothes/assaulting someone. Don't waste your money. If you came to see me at work I would say it was legal but would advise you not to carry it.

 

It is not that I am paranoid, rather I don't really fancy either being mugged, or held in a premises against my will!

I am sensible, and I would only ever use it as an absolutely last resort. I'm not going around spraying people for giving me funny looks! I pray to God that I am never in a situation where I have to use it...

In regards to damaging clothes/assualting, in all fairness, the criminal should be grateful his shirt is covered in dye, and not blood! Furthermore, damaging a potential kidnappers new Nikey shirt, is the last of my worries!

 

 

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Chief Cheetah

Spraying someone with beetroot juice isn't going to stop them mugging you or holding you against your will in a premises.  It will likely anger a mugger or kidnapper more than you want them to be and this probably isn't going to be good for your own health.

Not illegal to carry but I would strongly advise against it.

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Funkywingnut

You will invariably get someone come forward soon and say if the attacker was allergic and you sprayed them then it could be classed as an offensive weapon, but in reality they have been around quite a while, no such test case has happened and its reasonable to me that a person could carry a spray that isn't noxious.  I wouldn't arrest, but then I am pretty liberal and honest people defending theirselves and believe that people shouldn't have to live in fear of legal action if acting honestly.  

My issue with your question here is that you seem to think kit and/or equipment will solve your issue or fear, truth is you need training because you won't always have that bit of kit. 

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Rocket

I never suspected that piano teaching was such a dangerous occupation.

The only times I've seen this question in the past was from security staff who want to fill the canister hole on their equipment best normally occupied by CS or PAVA.

Farb gel is not a 'self defence spray' it is just a red dye for marking purposes and identification after the event. So if you ruin someones prize Nike trackies with it then it is highly likely that you will end up with a good battering.

Just my thoughts.

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Reasonable Man

I've never come across anything like a piano teacher being so concerned about their personal safety. A couple of debt collectors who had to visit some dubious neighbourhoods but seriously Tarquin Smythe-Fitzportisque and his mummy and daddy are most unlikely to kidnap you for the £50 in your purse.
If you have potential customers in high crime 'no go' areas then decline their request for your services. In every other area you are less likely to be mugged for your takings than you are to be stopped and searched for some beetroot juice.

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Richhamdo

@04amh, it's difficult to know what to say that will help you get over the anxiety you have. I don't believe at all that there is much chance of you being held against your will or being kidnapped /robbed by some angry customer. The chances of being killed in a aeroplane crash are supposed to be about 310,000 to one. The chances of being struck by lighting in your lifetime are about 3000 to one. The chances of being kidnapped by a stranger are about 610,000 to one or so they say. We are in fact in the greatest danger from those that we know or closest to us, (apparently). 

I wouldn't bother with anything like the stuff you are thinking about, more trouble than it's worth in my opinion and as Rocket says above it will make the aggressor angry if you decide to use it.

I once had someone come up to me while I was on foot patrol many years ago,  this young chap was wild with rage, (it had been a nice calm and quiet night up to that point, I had not a care in the world).  He told me that this girl had just thrown some beer over him in a certain  pub in town and ruined his new shirt and what am I going to do about it, so on and so forth. That was only beer, so make of that what you will. 

You would probably be better off perfecting just one good "come along hold" to bring this supposed kidnapper  to the floor. You will likely never need to use it but it may give you a bit more confidence when travelling door to door and working in other people's houses. . Rich..

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SD

Not a firearm, noxious substance or an offence weapon. However, unlikely to be of use. 

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Cathedral Bobby
5 minutes ago, SD said:

Not a firearm, noxious substance or an offence weapon. However, unlikely to be of use. 

I agree, even if someone was to have a reaction and you have followed the instructions it is unlikely that mens rea of intent, reckless or malicious would be met in terms of a prosecution. But I do think the risk to yourself if you dye some chavs tracksuit is greatly enhanced.

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04amh

Okay, thank you for all your responses.

 

May I ask, what would you recommend?

It was only yesterday that I saw a group of kids threatening to punch a teenage girl, and then chase an old woman down some alley ways! The point that I am trying to get across, is that I live in a dangerous part of the country. I have called the police (to separate incidents) 4 or 5 times, and before have had to wait 25 minutes for them to arrive at a burglary in progress opposite me! Obviously by which time, the crook had long gone! I have learnt that I (unfortunately) cannot put my trust in the police, and must take preventative measures myself. I am currently on a free trial with SkyGuard for a panic button that sits on my belt, but I doubt its effectiveness due to my local police's inadequate response time.

What I am asking from you, is for a suggestion of something that would give me some sense of safety.

I have considered about giving up being a piano teacher and finding some office job, but I feel that this isn't the way things should be. I shouldn't be scared to do my own job... But at the moment, I do feel like I am fighting a losing battle.

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Pete
1 hour ago, 04amh said:

Okay, thank you for all your responses.

 

May I ask, what would you recommend?

It was only yesterday that I saw a group of kids threatening to punch a teenage girl, and then chase an old woman down some alley ways! The point that I am trying to get across, is that I live in a dangerous part of the country. I have called the police (to separate incidents) 4 or 5 times, and before have had to wait 25 minutes for them to arrive at a burglary in progress opposite me! Obviously by which time, the crook had long gone! I have learnt that I (unfortunately) cannot put my trust in the police, and must take preventative measures myself. I am currently on a free trial with SkyGuard for a panic button that sits on my belt, but I doubt its effectiveness due to my local police's inadequate response time.

What I am asking from you, is for a suggestion of something that would give me some sense of safety.

I have considered about giving up being a piano teacher and finding some office job, but I feel that this isn't the way things should be. I shouldn't be scared to do my own job... But at the moment, I do feel like I am fighting a losing battle.

I can understand your anxiety re personal safety and can only recommend self defence classes/going to the gym and bulking up/moving to a different country where you're allowed to arm yourself.

im a bit lost why your concerns seem to focus on your job as a piano teacher, i've never heard of anyone attacking a music tutor to be honest 

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Reasonable Man

Maybe read up on victimisation. Criminals don't want to be caught and attack the weak and vulnerable. The kids you saw probably knew the girl and last week she was threatening them.
You say 'chase' the old lady down 'some alleyways'. Either she was a very nimble old lady or the kids didn't want to catch her. They were not after her pension, probably some anti social behaviour/language towards her. They would not have chased a 6'6" 30 year old man with bulging muscles, or threatened to punch him.
Walk around displaying confidence, be aware of your surroundings. Stay in the light, walk at the edge of the pavement. Don't walk on using your mobile phone or with earphones in. Use your senses and if you anticipate danger move away from it, confidently - not like you are scared and running away. Only run away when you have no other option. If you present yourself in a confident 'I can look after myself' way any trouble makers will wait for a softer target.
To bulk up will take 2 years of hard work, without illegal drugs. 5 years to become proficient at self defence/ martial arts.

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