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So what's 'reasonable'?
What he did amounts to inconsiderate/dangerous driving. But for the grace of God the car didn't hit anyone or anything but if it did would that mean the outcome should be any different?
Or should he have a pat on the back for racing to a colleagues aid while being reckless to anyone else?
I learned a salutary lesson - it is better to arrive 30 seconds late than not at all.


It is very fortunate no one was hurt, but I still stand by what I say, each incident should be treated on its own merit. This incident was an assistance shout, no damage, no one hurt and completely unintentional in wet conditions. If you honestly think CPS would do a full code on that re a PI factor I'm sorry it just would never happen. I have had pursuits where people have driven on the wrong side of the road and CPS refuse to say it's dangerous even from the clear tone footage I've sent. I do think he will be getting a email from PSD though as that's simply the way the job is going. I went through a no entry to a urgent assistance on a night duty with no vehicles on the road, the hassle I went through with that made me feel like I was criminal when in fact I was essentially going to save life (colleague getting a complete shoe in)
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I think we've reached a point where this topic is not going to get back on track, so it is now closed. Thank you for your contributions. 

So what's 'reasonable'? What he did amounts to inconsiderate/dangerous driving. But for the grace of God the car didn't hit anyone or anything but if it did would that mean the outcome should be any

It really isn't intentional. You can see the counter steer being attempted but it didn't work and ends up going into the slide. With respect if you can't see how it happened then you probabl

Radman
30 minutes ago, NCFPA said:

 


It is very fortunate no one was hurt, but I still stand by what I say, each incident should be treated on its own merit. This incident was an assistance shout, no damage, no one hurt and completely unintentional in wet conditions. If you honestly think CPS would do a full code on that re a PI factor I'm sorry it just would never happen. I have had pursuits where people have driven on the wrong side of the road and CPS refuse to say it's dangerous even from the clear tone footage I've sent. I do think he will be getting a email from PSD though as that's simply the way the job is going. I went through a no entry to a urgent assistance on a night duty with no vehicles on the road, the hassle I went through with that made me feel like I was criminal when in fact I was essentially going to save life (colleague getting a complete shoe in)

Driving is just one of those things where you have to be super careful and think safety all of the time - When I respond I will now stick to 20+mph max above the posted limit if it is safe to go that fast as per my training because it just isn't worth an investigation, losing your job or indeed freedom should you have an accident and the worse happen.

 

 

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jamieMET

Exactly why I avoid our Vauxhall Astras. A Focus would never have lost it like that on such a minor corner. 

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Milankovitch

I don't think you can really blame it on the vehicle manufacturer, if the soft squishy bit behind the wheel does their bit that wouldn't happen.

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Exactly why I avoid our Vauxhall Astras. A Focus would never have lost it like that on such a minor corner. 


Have I missed something? It was a straight open road.
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Reasonable Man


It is very fortunate no one was hurt, but I still stand by what I say, each incident should be treated on its own merit. This incident was an assistance shout, no damage, no one hurt and completely unintentional in wet conditions. If you honestly think CPS would do a full code on that re a PI factor I'm sorry it just would never happen. I have had pursuits where people have driven on the wrong side of the road and CPS refuse to say it's dangerous even from the clear tone footage I've sent. I do think he will be getting a email from PSD though as that's simply the way the job is going. I went through a no entry to a urgent assistance on a night duty with no vehicles on the road, the hassle I went through with that made me feel like I was criminal when in fact I was essentially going to save life (colleague getting a complete shoe in)

I don't know what the CPS would think but then I don't think that it should go that far.
Getting an email from PSD should be the case though, and that's not how the job is going - that's what I got 30 years ago (well not an email back then obviously).
The driver needs a stern meeting without coffee and it made clear that his driving was unacceptable, if he consequences were worse then so would they have been for him. And if he is caught doing anything similar in the future then there will be consequences.
It seems that some think he should be having a pat on the back and certainly not deterred from racing along wet roads at twice the speed limit with pedestrians around.
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jamieMET
13 hours ago, NCFPA said:

 


Have I missed something? It was a straight open road.

 

Looks like a slight kink in the road at the point of the T junction. Thays what I was referring to. 

That also appears to be where the car breaks traction from. 

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MerseyLLB
13 hours ago, NCFPA said:

 


Have I missed something? It was a straight open road.

 

It's not actually bang on.

The approach to the location is a gentle downhill bend.

This is what I meant about people not having knowledge. 

Additionally Vauxhalls do handle quite differently to Fords. 

Kent Police have only a handful of Astras whilst the fleet is changed. They are also a more powerful vehicle. It's quite probable that several drivers might only have driven the astra a couple of times if at all.

There's a while host of reasons why I think there's a little bit more to this than 'poor driving hang him out to dry'.

Edited by MerseyLLB
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Conor James
On 31/07/2017 at 18:10, Reasonable Man said:


What do they mean by 'accidental'. Surely the point is that it was completely avoidable if the driver had not been driving too fast for the conditions and/or his ability.
As a link to another current thread on this site - I wonder what the view would be if this had been dash cam footage of a car without blue lights and fluorescent stickers?
And before anyone thinks I am being harsh to the driver I performed a similar manoeuvre in a Mk2 Ford Escort while on my way to a shout, the difference being I hit a wall with the side of my panda. I got stuck on for it.

I am with you on this one, this is no accident at all, A.B.S breaks would not allow that to happen on a straight rd.  The officer thought he was being flash and pulled the hand break, he’s very lucky he ended up on his feet, even more lucky his bosses lapt it up.

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Conor James
On 01/08/2017 at 20:06, NCFPA said:

 


Have I missed something? It was a straight open road.

 

You’ve missed the fact that ABS breaks would easily handle that speed and that the officer was trying to be bright and grabbed them hand break. (Probably forgetting that It’s raining)

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Conor James
On 02/08/2017 at 09:33, MerseyLLB said:

It's not actually bang on.

The approach to the location is a gentle downhill bend.

This is what I meant about people not having knowledge. 

Additionally Vauxhalls do handle quite differently to Fords. 

Kent Police have only a handful of Astras whilst the fleet is changed. They are also a more powerful vehicle. It's quite probable that several drivers might only have driven the astra a couple of times if at all.

There's a while host of reasons why I think there's a little bit more to this than 'poor driving hang him out to dry'.

He pulled the hand break 

The whole reason ABS breaks were invented was to avoid this sort of thing from happening 

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Conor James
57 minutes ago, Mac7 said:

 


How do you know this.

 

It’s very obvious well at least it is if you know how ABS breaking system works

To put it simply for you

Instead of of locking the breaks it pumps the breaks faster than you or I would be able to,

if you watch the video you will see the car does not shudder at all, as it would if he had his foot on the breaks, also at that angle the car would have just went straight forward. The reason it turned and didn’t shudder is because the hand break was locked. 

I can explain it in more detail if you like?

Edited by Conor James
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