Complaints against officers

[Techie1 + 2,024]

Most powerful group's officials say they question the continued benefit of being part of the staff association.

The Met Police Federation is considering splitting from the national staff association

The largest and most powerful branch in the Police Federation of England and Wales is looking at breaking away from the rest of the staff association, Police Oracle can reveal.

The Metropolitan Police Federation is examining its options after reps became increasingly frustrated with how the national organisation is run.

The issue has come to the fore just days before the association’s annual conference takes place in Birmingham.

Met Fed Chairman Ken Marsh confirmed to Police Oracle the branch has been carrying out scoping work on the possibility.

Among the issues he says have prompted the move are the pace of the Normington reforms – especially in relation to finance - and the associated costs of spending on consultants.

He also said the negotiating power of the Met might be greater if it was its own entity, arguing for things such as an increase in London Weighting.

“All I’ve ever wanted since I took over is to provide a good service to cops. I think we have done that locally in the Met, I don’t think we get that from the PFEW,” he said.

The branch is by far the largest within the Police Federation and generates a significant proportion of its income.

On Thursday afternoon chairman Steve White sent an email to reps at its national board and national council telling them rumours have been circulating about a Met Fed breakaway.

With it, he attached a letter he had sent to Met Fed officials requesting they clarify their position.

In the email Mr White said: “I did not want a situation going into conference where we were distracted from the important business of protecting the protectors by unsubstantiated rumour.

“I have asked the question on behalf of the organisation and we will get a reply.”

After the email was forwarded to Police Oracle, our reporter contacted Mr Marsh who said he had now been put in a position where he may as well speak about the issue.

“We’ve been scoping it for quite a while. Twelve sergeants sat at a [meeting] and asked Paul [Deller, general secretary] and I to scope it,” he said.

“The Met Police Federation is a bigger organisation than Scotland and Northern Ireland. They are not part of PFEW, Wales might not be when they get devolution, and we’re bigger than them.”

Among his frustrations is the money held in local branch accounts, or so-called “number two” accounts, which Sir David Normington identified in 2014 as needing to be published. A recent checklist published by the national Fed describes this reform as “complete”, however the regulation is yet to be updated by the Home Office.

Mr Marsh said: “We want to be in a position where it’s all for one and one for all, but we are not going to be part of something where we hand over £8 million from our reserves when there’s little forces keeping millions in reserves and carparks and everything else.”

Mr White’s email also says: “I understand discussions have included ways to circumvent the current position that this would not be supported by the Home Secretary. I know that you will be aware of how damaging rumour can be.”

Mr Marsh says while he would prefer for the changes to be made via regulations through the Home Office, other methods may be possible – such as withholding payment from the national body, and said he thinks the plan might have political supporters.

“We haven’t got anything to lose from this, unlike the rest of the country if they lost the Met,” he said.

In his letter to the Met officials, which was forwarded to Police Oracle on Friday morning, Mr White said the branch is important to him.

“As we near the completion of the review and as we get to grips with a new way of managing our collective finance, to provide best value for our members, I know that the Metropolitan Federation view is one shared by many in relation to “number 2” accounts and the like. I am certain that by working together we can resolve these issues.

“The Metropolitan Federation is hugely important and influential and should be front and centre in helping the organisation change for the better. I want to know how I can help to give you confidence that this is the case, and reassure you of the importance that attach to every constituent part of the Police Federation of England and Wales,” he said.

In a recent interview with Police Oracle, national general secretary Andy Fittes said he was happy with the work done so far but stressed the “complicated process” cannot be rushed.

He was hitting back at sentiments from Greater Manchester and Hampshire Fed chairmen who criticised the time the process was taking, and the money being spent on consultants.

View on Police Oracle

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

So we could get to a position where the Met Fed offered its services to other forces and you'd have a choice of you joined the national, your own, or another forces? Essentially shopping around for the best deal for your dollar.

[HazRat 762]

Can they legally separate though?

[Milankovitch + 3,445]

9 minutes ago, Indiana Jones said:

So we could get to a position where the Met Fed offered its services to other forces and you'd have a choice of you joined the national, your own, or another forces? Essentially shopping around for the best deal for your dollar.

I don't think that is what is being floated here. Met officers would join the Met PolFed as a distinct organisation to the E&W PolFed, everybody else would join the E&W PolFed.

 

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

Fees in E&W go to the respective forces. Then onward to the National. Met officers ARE members of the Met Fed.

But a potential extension of that withdrawal from the National could be that cops could shop around.

[Milankovitch + 3,445]

2 minutes ago, Indiana Jones said:

Fees in E&W go to the respective forces. Then onward to the National. Met officers ARE members of the Met Fed.

But a potential extension of that withdrawal from the National could be that cops could shop around.

I don't really see where you are getting that idea from. There is no suggestion that a Met PolFed that has split off from the national structure would allow cops from elsewhere to join.

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

Not would. Could. It was raised as a hypothetical.

[Milankovitch + 3,445]

3 minutes ago, Indiana Jones said:

Not would. Could. It was raised as a hypothetical.

I think that is exceedingly unlikely to be honest.

[Indiana Jones + 1,082]

Noted.

[bensonby + 3,503]

2 hours ago, HazRat said:

Can they legally separate though?

That's precisely what I thought. Isn't the Fed  and it's structure defined by an Act of Parliament?

[HazRat 762]

Whilst PFEW appears to be detached from its membership, separating to individual force entities has got to be the worst idea going. 43 different ways.... yes that can't go wrong can it!

[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

If you have ever been to the National Conference you will have heard several crazy propositions from the Met. Perhaps they are miffed because they can be voted down.  I do not think that they have put much thought into this; as has been said the Federation is defined by Act of Parliament. Policing is countrywide not just the Met.

[Policey_Man + 765]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 18:50, Zulu 22 said:

If you have ever been to the National Conference you will have heard several crazy propositions from the Met. Perhaps they are miffed because they can be voted down.  I do not think that they have put much thought into this; as has been said the Federation is defined by Act of Parliament. Policing is countrywide not just the Met.

I don't disagree that policing is country wide, but you've also got to remember that the Met represents a significant part of that country wide number;  by looking the police officer figures for 2016, a quick calculation is that the Met represents 25.23% of all police officers in the country. That isn't a block of officers to be ignored lightly.

Perhaps you could give us some examples to support your assertion of the Met Fed putting forward crazy propositions? I think it's unfair to suggest that without backing that statement up...

[Zulu 22 + 4,571]

1 hour ago, Policey_Man said:

I don't disagree that policing is country wide, but you've also got to remember that the Met represents a significant part of that country wide number;  by looking the police officer figures for 2016, a quick calculation is that the Met represents 25.23% of all police officers in the country. That isn't a block of officers to be ignored lightly.

Perhaps you could give us some examples to support your assertion of the Met Fed putting forward crazy propositions? I think it's unfair to suggest that without backing that statement up...

25.23% is nothing like a majority. As for the crazy motions, I do not have my old papers with me and it is difficult to find them on record.  I can remember one where they wanted to pass a motion that officers with more than 30 years service had to resign from the JBB.  We did get a little Fed up of raising an objection through Conference Standing Orders. Perhaps you could defend the Met motions with some that have been passed before Conference, and even more, carried through.

[Rocket + 6,403]

I wonder if the upping of the subs as per the announcement from the conference today is either a result of this or will hasten the departure of the Met?