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Pathca

The Good Old Days or were they ?

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Pathca

I have thought long and hard about posting this , and mods if you're not happy feel free to edit or even delete it 

There has been debate on here recently about how policing and the polices attitudes have changed and not for the best. It occurred to me that a lot of my service ( albeit as a   ' hobby bobby ',  but one who was valued, took notice and was one of the team)  was over the period being discussed,and I got to wondering were things really that much better in the not so distant past

Certanly in the glory days before savage cutbacks the officer numbers were much better,but I would want to look at less concrete issues than that. Definitely IMHO  there were things that were better. The police had more autonomy and were able to use their common sense more, there wasn't the worry that making a simple mistake could lead to months or years of worrying or even the loss of a job. The 'ways and means act ' was often used and did achieve results. 

So far so good (old days) but were things so much better in the bigger picture?

 I experienced sexism and sexual remarks,and saw racism. Homophobia was rife .Some of the stories I heard of things that happened would have made PSDs hair stand on end ,there is a chance that some of this was bobbies  'bigging themselves up' to a young woman , but even then ,some things I did see would induce apoplexy today i.e. drinking on duty, married officers visiting their mistress(es) during the shift etc

Reference was made to a 'can't be bothered ' attitude today well back then a call to an ASB job within quarter of an hour of finishing time could result in a response of 'area searched no trace ' or a warp speed drive past. 

Male victims of domestic abuse were considered wimps who needed to grow a pair. The attitude to sexual crime could be victim blaming to say the least 

As for CID. They were a law unto themselves, I could make another post just about them ( Gene Hunt wasn't that big a caricature)

And yet I bl@@dy loved it

But I didn't know better 

Where they the good old days? No they were different

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Cathedral Bobby

They were different and occasionally my toes curl at remembering some of the practice. The crazy things you did wearing a tunic, heavy wool trousers, and piece of wood to fight of all the ills of the world (women in skirts only and a handbag). Yobs throw bricks, our response, pick up a bin lid. No traffic unit available to attend RTA on a busy road at night, stand in the carriageway wearing all black (if the cars can't see you they can't hit you - Not). You're right Pathca they weren't better just very different. Funny though I would still join the job as it was then, but I wouldn't join it now. I do remember being in so many scrapes and being asked by members of the public If I want help. Perhaps the job is the same, just society/community is very very different.

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MajorDisaster

I was talking about this to an old Army buddy on Friday. It is ever thus - It is never the same job you joined years ago and it was always better then.  It probably wasn't but you think was.  I'm sure Roman legionaries on Hadrian's wall thought 'It was better in Gaul twenty years ago and the youth of today have no idea'.  I've only got a max of 8 years to serve, being a late joiner, but I'm sure my twenty something contemporaries will do a first rate job for the next 35 years and at the end of their careers they'll be saying 'It was better in the old days and the youth of today have no idea'.

 

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Zulu 22

Pathca I don't know where you served or when but it is hard to recognise much of that. Cathedral Bobby I have never known when female officers did not have a choice of skirts or trousers. When I joined I was told that the job was knackered, and although the old fella was a serving officer I knew no better in service terms than what I found and I loved it. However when I retired I would have said them job is knackered but recruits joining knew no better. Policing street craft seemed to go out around the early 2000's. The old fella did not have the assistance of CCTV and a lot of our technology yet they carried a higher detection rate.

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SD
1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

 The old fella did not have the assistance of CCTV and a lot of our technology yet they carried a higher detection rate.

Perhaps because they failed to record most crimes, bent and broke the rules without consequence, made up evidence to fit the crime, failed to do the most basic safeguarding of the vulnerable, had half as many offences to investigate and no cybercrime . Just a thought.

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Milankovitch

Trousers weren't routinely issued to female officers in the force I joined until 1992 believe it or not. Prior to that they were only allowed to wear trousers in winter but only during a nightshift. Oddly, they weren't actually issued with trousers even though they were, in theory, sometimes allowed to wear them. I certainly wasn't serving back then(!) but there was a section in the force history book that was produced prior to the amalgamation on uniform, very interesting indeed.

AM351.jpg.51d20183a34d58772aa2e65de0c4e9dd.jpg

The newspaper clipping is a fair bit before that time for West Mids, I dare say some of the English forces were slightly more progressive in that regard.

 

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MerseyLLB
2 hours ago, SD said:

Perhaps because they failed to record most crimes, bent and broke the rules without consequence, made up evidence to fit the crime, failed to do the most basic safeguarding of the vulnerable, had half as many offences to investigate and no cybercrime . Just a thought.

I think you should have a bit more respect for the hundreds of thousands of police officers who came before you - what makes you special enough to denigrate all their service for a cheap snub?

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Reasonable Man

WPCs (as they were titled back in the day) were not issued with trousers when I joined. They had a stocking allowance though. I remember in the early 80s chasing a suspect who climbed over a fence, my female colleague was next there and hoisted her skirt (proving her allowance was spent on stockings) in order to get her leg over said fence.
Ridiculous looking back but no one knew any different.


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Cathedral Bobby
3 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Pathca I don't know where you served or when but it is hard to recognise much of that. Cathedral Bobby I have never known when female officers did not have a choice of skirts or trousers. When I joined I was told that the job was knackered, and although the old fella was a serving officer I knew no better in service terms than what I found and I loved it. However when I retired I would have said them job is knackered but recruits joining knew no better. Policing street craft seemed to go out around the early 2000's. The old fella did not have the assistance of CCTV and a lot of our technology yet they carried a higher detection rate.

Cleveland 1985 when I joined and remained that way for the next three or four years so was probably early 1990s when it changed. As for Pathca, well I recognised a lot of what she said and I met a couple of Gene Hunts clones. It may well that we see the past through the mist of rose tinted spectacles but I enjoyed my service at that time whether police commanded more respect, or the world seemed a little less complicated I don't know, but I do believe cops have it harder now.

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Cathedral Bobby
2 hours ago, SD said:

Perhaps because they failed to record most crimes, bent and broke the rules without consequence, made up evidence to fit the crime, failed to do the most basic safeguarding of the vulnerable, had half as many offences to investigate and no cybercrime . Just a thought.

Like anytime, including now, there were bad apples, but the vast majority were hard working, conscientious, professional and great cops who did a great job policing and protecting the communities they served. Many minds one heart

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SD
9 hours ago, MerseyLLB said:

I think you should have a bit more respect for the hundreds of thousands of police officers who came before you - what makes you special enough to denigrate all their service for a cheap snub?

Sorry but respect is a 2 way street and having retired officers implying that they were better than those that follow is just as offensive. Just because someone saw out their 30 doesn't make them a good cop, nor does it give them the right to criticise a whole generation of officers. My comment is valid and the raft of historic enquiries supports that.

Now if someone wishes to discuss issues with the job as a whole rather than the officers in it then I'll be happy to debate. 

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SD
9 hours ago, Cathedral Bobby said:

Like anytime, including now, there were bad apples, but the vast majority were hard working, conscientious, professional and great cops who did a great job policing and protecting the communities they served. Many minds one heart

That only works if you judge them by the standards at the time. 

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Reasonable Man

That's the only way to fairly judge.


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Zulu 22
13 hours ago, MerseyLLB said:

I think you should have a bit more respect for the hundreds of thousands of police officers who came before you - what makes you special enough to denigrate all their service for a cheap snub?

I could not have put that better myself. Well perhaps I could but I would have been in trouble.

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Zulu 22
13 hours ago, Reasonable Man said:

WPCs (as they were titled back in the day) were not issued with trousers when I joined. They had a stocking allowance though. I remember in the early 80s chasing a suspect who climbed over a fence, my female colleague was next there and hoisted her skirt (proving her allowance was spent on stockings) in order to get her leg over said fence.
Ridiculous looking back but no one knew any different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the early 80's GMP replaced a lot of fleet cars with Ford Transit Vans that Female officers could not get into if wearing skirts. It was around this time, I understand, that the trousers became standard issue. When I joined they certainly were.

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