Techie1

Two officers who went to McDonalds instead of attending emergency call set to keep their jobs

46 posts in this topic

Perhaps I am in the minority in thinking that the officers were lucky with the outcome. Very lucky. Given the seriousness and grading of the call as given in the original post, I find it startling they felt it acceptable to stop off for a burger.

As soon as possible it says or at least within 60 minutes. That doesn't to me suggest they can amble up within an hour because of that.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Perhaps I am in the minority in thinking that the officers were lucky with the outcome. Very lucky. Given the seriousness and grading of the call as given in the original post, I find it startling they felt it acceptable to stop off for a burger.
As soon as possible it says or at least within 60 minutes. That doesn't to me suggest they can amble up within an hour because of that.


A cup of tea they got not a burger (officers should be allowed to have a drink when they get the chance, food is different) Knowing the borough they work on it is probably one of the busiest divisions in the country, I counted 32 immediate graded calls in one late shift the other day, it is common practice for response officers to grab a drink and just take a few minutes out to catch up on paperwork, these officers appeared to have been sent a call straight after the last and the lack of training meant that an 'S' grade was perceived by them to mean attend as soon as possible within the hour.

I've seen officers commit a lot worse misconduct and although you're entitled to your opinion I cannot see why you're so subjective on there ability to police based on one incident that it merits dismissal?

Have you never made an error in policing? Have you ever picked up that pen on the desk belonging to another without taking reasonable steps to find who it belongs to? Course you have.

Also are you a regular? Doing this day in day out earlies lates and nights? I can always tell by people's opinions who are doing it full time and who are not. This whole process was totally unnecessary and just shows the way the job is going and I feel for the officers who come to work day in day out to try and make the 'system work' and on this day they perhaps made a slight error of judgement but not to warrant the way they have been treated.




Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

32 minutes ago, David said:

Perhaps I am in the minority in thinking that the officers were lucky with the outcome. Very lucky. Given the seriousness and grading of the call as given in the original post, I find it startling they felt it acceptable to stop off for a burger.

As soon as possible it says or at least within 60 minutes. That doesn't to me suggest they can amble up within an hour because of that.

Agreed they were indeed lucky but I would like to listen to the transcripts of the radio transmissions before condemning the officers.

Regardless of that I still believe the organisation needs to accept it's own failings.

 Given the nature of the call within an hour is not acceptable. I certainly wouldn't find it acceptable if it was a member of my family. 

Has it been acceptable practice to assign jobs knowing there is no possibility of patrols reaching the incident until just before the deadline? I ask this as it soon  becomes accepted practice to take the maximum allowed response time as the norm. This was certainly the case with my old force due to the volume of outstanding jobs and the lack of patrols to respond. There is also the issue of training/knowledge of what is the policy "Accordingly the panel finds that there was an absence of evidence to find that both officers were trained adequately.".

 

 

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

7 minutes ago, NCFPA said:

 

Also are you a regular? Doing this day in day out earlies lates and nights? I can always tell by people's opinions who are doing it full time and who are not. This whole process was totally unnecessary and just shows the way the job is going and I feel for the officers who come to work day in day out to try and make the 'system work' and on this day they perhaps made a slight error of judgement but not to warrant the way they have been treated.

 

 

Not sure how this is relevant, never mind the fact that's it very judgemental?

We are all entitled to our opinions regardless of our backgrounds. I am an experienced full time officer and based on my experience of misconduct proceedings I agree that the officers are both very lucky.

We don't always have to agree on this forum but let's respect others points of view.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

I should think calling the informant for more information whilst they were waiting might have been looked on slightly more favourably than if they hadn't done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Not sure how this is relevant, never mind the fact that's it very judgemental?
We are all entitled to our opinions regardless of our backgrounds. I am an experienced full time officer and based on my experience of misconduct proceedings I agree that the officers are both very lucky.
We don't always have to agree on this forum but let's respect others points of view.


Fair point, but David's opinion was based on the hearsay of the incident not the full facts and circumstances which is now in the public domain. I will only challenge someone if there opinion is based on hearsay or media articles and not the actual fact of the incident.


Sent from my iPhone using Police Community

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Presumably most opinions, on this forum, won't be based on actual facts? 

The only people that know what happened were the people that were there / involved. 

And most of us won't know if someone is telling the truth when they say they know all the facts. 

Anyway, let's move on now... 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

From the information presented I think clearly there are issues which required investigation and fit within the disciplinary process, however, I think the chair of the panel has called this right and this won't become a career ending outcome. I am sure they will see the error they have made and will continue productive careers. As I said in an earlier post I think they were lucky to have a sensible and balanced panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


I think this this boils down to two points that have already been made:

1) Sub-standard training - I've always been told I-grade = 15 minutes, but every knows you hit the blues and get there ASAP.  S-grade = 60 minutes. Nobody has ever told me that it's actually ASAP but within the hour.

2) Making the job work - It's a regular occurrence for officers to take a call and the pick up refs on the way, or pick up 2-3 calls to clear them up and get them off the box. I'd go so far as to say that it's a necessity and the job will get what it deserves when officers start taking one call at a time and settling down for their entitled refs break. There aren't enough units to pick up the calls in the meantime so they'll sit there anyway.

I hope the Fed will be circulating an information regarding this pointing out the policy and advising officers to take one call at a time and to protect themselves.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

6 hours ago, ForceHQ said:

As a stop gap I think it would be beneficial for dispatchers to come out on ride along type days, id also counter that with the idea that cops should go and observer what the control room staff are dealing with so cops understand why a phone call might take a bit of time to arrange and why the control room ask for an email for a long job update etc...

Message from management: Your idea has too much common sense. Request denied.

Brilliant idea though.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, JulietAlpha1 said:

I think this this boils down to two points that have already been made:

1) Sub-standard training - I've always been told I-grade = 15 minutes, but every knows you hit the blues and get there ASAP.  S-grade = 60 minutes. Nobody has ever told me that it's actually ASAP but within the hour.

2) Making the job work - It's a regular occurrence for officers to take a call and the pick up refs on the way, or pick up 2-3 calls to clear them up and get them off the box. I'd go so far as to say that it's a necessity and the job will get what it deserves when officers start taking one call at a time and settling down for their entitled refs break. There aren't enough units to pick up the calls in the meantime so they'll sit there anyway.

I hope the Fed will be circulating an information regarding this pointing out the policy and advising officers to take one call at a time and to protect themselves.

I've always thought S's were with an hour or at least that's what the control room would have you believe when they're chasing the response times.

5 hours ago, Policey_Man said:

UPDATE: The Metro is reporting that the officers received written warnings today.

Source: http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/28/police-officers-went-to-mcdonalds-while-on-999-call-instead-of-helping-suicidal-woman-6480212/

Glad that they have kept their jobs.

Scape goats for a well abused practice. Bravo.

Edited by HazRat
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements



2) Making the job work - It's a regular occurrence for officers to take a call and the pick up refs on the way, or pick up 2-3 calls to clear them up and get them off the box. I'd go so far as to say that it's a necessity and the job will get what it deserves when officers start taking one call at a time and settling down for their entitled refs break. There aren't enough units to pick up the calls in the meantime so they'll sit there anyway.
I hope the Fed will be circulating an information regarding this pointing out the policy and advising officers to take one call at a time and to protect themselves.

If officers want to protect themselves then they simply can't do that anymore; it really is as simple as that.

At the end of the day, who are we making the job work for? It's certainly not us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, HazRat said:

I've always thought S's were with an hour or at least that's what the control room would have you believe when they're chasing the response times.

The chase you because they don't want a target to fail. I'm sure you know, but many won't, that performances on the I and S grades (i.e.  whether charter times have been met and by how long they are 'missed' by) are all subjects reported on the Duty Officer's handover for every shift and discussed at the GPC pacesetters meetings. Charter time performance is even discussed up to ACPO level.

Edited by Policey_Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

The people on this forum vilifying the officers are clearly not Met or haven't been on response team.

i've been in the met for 7 years and had no idea that S grades were "as soon as possible". Indeed, on my borough you get control assigning you to new S grades as you go in to try and get food so it's not on their list anymore and you can go afterwards. Is everyone to be stuck on then?

I also don't think there's enough information available for anyone to say that the officers were "lucky". for all we know (as is usual) the call was circulated as "anyone available for an S grade welfare check" which is done hundreds of times a day. I don't know what it said on the CAD but it certainly wasn't "someone says this person is going to commit suicide" or it wouldn't have passed the initial call taker, BOCU control room and response team supervisors without being I graded.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now