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Rocket

Blind man Tasered as cane mistaken for gun in Levenshulme

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Rocket

A blind man was Tasered by police after they mistook his cane for a gun.

Armed response officers from Greater Manchester Police (GMP) were called to Albert Road in Levenshulme at about 18:40 GMT on Thursday after reports there was a man with a gun.

They say a Taser was deployed and a 43-year-old man was detained.

It was later discovered the man was actually carrying a folding cane and he was released as he posed no threat.

The incident has been referred to the GMP's Professional Standards Branch.

Supt Steve Howard said: "Officers responded quickly to the incident to ensure the safety of the community of Levenshulme.

"It has been established that there was no threat and enquiries are ongoing to fully understand the circumstances of the incident."

In 2012, a blind man was Tasered in Chorley, Lancashire, after his white stick was mistaken for a Samurai sword.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39070339?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_england&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=english_regions

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Remmy

Sure they didn't mistake his cane for a gun, if that had been the case I suspect he would have been shot.

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Zulu 22
1 hour ago, Remmy said:

Sure they didn't mistake his cane for a gun, if that had been the case I suspect he would have been shot.

Well none of us were there, but  why was he tasered. The report says it has been referred to the PSD, but on tonight's North West News it says that the officers have been to see the man an apologised.  It seems the discipline enquiry has now been circumnavigated by the apology.  I was wondering who was the blind man and hoping it was not the officer. Is this a sign that their are some who are Taser happy. Just saying

Edited by Zulu 22

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Growley
Is this a sign that their are some who are Taser happy. Just saying

How on earth can you suggest this is an example of officers being 'taser happy'?
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Remmy
15 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Well none of us were there, but  why was he tasered. The report says it has been referred to the PSD, but on tonight's North West News it says that the officers have been to see the man an apologised.  It seems the discipline enquiry has now been circumnavigated by the apology.  I was wondering who was the blind man and hoping it was not the officer. Is this a sign that their are some who are Taser happy. Just saying

You couldn't be more wrong Zulu, the full circumstances will come out in due course. However there are clues in the news reports if you listen carefully two separate reports from the public received, both stating that there was an agitated male in possession of a firearm pacing up and down the platform. On arrival officers attempted to negotiate with an agitated male, it would appear unsuccessfully.

I also wouldn't describe any firearms officer I have ever worked with as "trigger happy", but that's just my experience of 15 years in the firearms world ;)

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Zulu 22
2 hours ago, Growley said:


How on earth can you suggest this is an example of officers being 'taser happy'?

Very easily, blind man walking stick, two officers. There was no need to use a taser. Or, are we back to the arrogance of "I can so I will"      accidental?

Edited by Zulu 22

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obsidian_eclipse

How blind was he?

I think some people imagine a man with frosted eyes and a long white stick with a ball on the end - tapping it up and down the platform along side a guide dog in a fluorescent yellow jacket. Then the police come along and taser him because they have some predisposed hatred to blind people (and someone will suggest it's a good job he wasn't black as well).

When it could be, and I hasten to add I don't know, someone who's registered blind and has a visual impairment which isn't stereotypical and is actually utterly non obvious. It could be one eye, it could be some degradation which still gives a good deal of vision. The stick, a collapsible varient which looks remarkably like some sort of weapon in its folded form. Maybe he's behaving irrationally or even dangerously! How much time does an officer have to decide just what it is he's got? Baring in mind it's been reported by others as being a weapon?

There's so many possibilities.

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Bacon_sandwich
Very easily, blind man walking stick, two officers. There was no need to use a taser. Or, are we back to the arrogance of "I can so I will"      accidental?


I can't say there was a need for taser, how on earth can you say there wasn't?



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ParochialYokal

They should have gone to SpecSavers....


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Remmy
7 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Very easily, blind man walking stick, two officers. There was no need to use a taser. Or, are we back to the arrogance of "I can so I will"      accidental?

Oh dear you really do make yourself look foolish with comments such as these.

The rationale to use the Taser rests with the officers involved. I unlike you know the full circumstances of the incident, the information and intelligence, however even with that I would not second guess the officers actions as we weren't there.

Unfortunate as this incident was it is sometimes unavoidable as we act on information intelligence available at the time without the benefit of hindsight like you.

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Zulu 22
7 hours ago, Remmy said:

Oh dear you really do make yourself look foolish with comments such as these.

The rationale to use the Taser rests with the officers involved. I unlike you know the full circumstances of the incident, the information and intelligence, however even with that I would not second guess the officers actions as we weren't there.

Unfortunate as this incident was it is sometimes unavoidable as we act on information intelligence available at the time without the benefit of hindsight like you.

Not foolish at all, honest. I presume that the two officers had good eye sight, so perhaps lacked judgement. Were they experienced in taser, I don't know, but experience is something that you cannot buy. Levenshulme, as you know, is very multi cultural and you cannot afford to lose the respect of the community. This is not the first "cock up" with Taser that the GMP have undergone, and not even in Levenshulme.  The last one in Levenshulme ended in the death of a man, who was Tasered twice.  Taser should be the last resort not the first.  It is strange that the two officers have, allegedly, visited the victim and offered there unreserved apology, or that it is to get a quick resolve to the complaints side of the event.

As you rightly say, We were not there, but the apology would tend to indicate that they could have handled it a lot better, of that, there is little doubt.

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obsidian_eclipse

Taser should be the last resort? I think my view differs significantly and I should immediately be sent for retraining.

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Remmy
37 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Not foolish at all, honest. I presume that the two officers had good eye sight, so perhaps lacked judgement. Were they experienced in taser, I don't know, but experience is something that you cannot buy. 

Read the news articles and my posts to answer your own question. But just in case you haven't got a clue what training firearms officers go through....the answer is yes very experienced. No thier judgement isn't lacking in fact firearms officers judgement is constantly assessed during training and operations. Although it's something that you would not not appreciate as with all due respect you have never put yourself through such training. 

That said we do make mistakes but if I  am sure you made one or two mistakes during your career. But if they were honest mistakes you learn from them and move on.

57 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Levenshulme, as you know, is very multi cultural and you cannot afford to lose the respect of the community

You are missing the point totally, these officers were putting themselves in harms way to protect this very community from what they and members of the community believed was an armed threat.

 

59 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

This is not the first "cock up" with Taser that the GMP have undergone, and not even in Levenshulme.  The last one in Levenshulme ended in the death of a man, who was Tasered twice.  Taser should be the last resort not the first.

What do you mean by cock up? You are starting to look silly again. Yes Tasers can kill "they are defined as less lethal" not none leathal. I suggest you do a little research into the unfortunate incident that lead to the death of that person and the IPCC investigation into the incident.

Taser is a tactical option which can and should be used to protect life when it's appropriate not as a last resort. Early use can protect people including subjects from serious harm if used correctly.

Btw I'm assuming you didn't mean last resort means we should shoot him first then taser him? I perfer to use a Taser as a means of avoiding using leathal force first, I find that works best for all during a firearms incident.

1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

It is strange that the two officers have, allegedly, visited the victim and offered there unreserved apology, or that it is to get a quick resolve to the complaints side of the event.

Not strange at all I would gladly acknowledge if I'm wrong and apologize if I was involved in this incident. We mean no harm to the people we deal with, firearms officers are still police officers who strive to protect life and protect the public from harm. However I would also explain why we took the actions we did, which the organisation has. As I have pointed out already we work on the information and intelligence available at the time, we do not have access to hindsight.

Once again you really are quite wrong, it seems you have ignored all the points or observations I have raised throughout this thread. I welcome different points of view but only if everyone keeps an open mind.

I can only assume that's for one of the following reasons. It doesn't suit your point of view and I and others can present rational arguments all day long, to no effect as your so obtuse. Or perhaps you are deliberately attempting to provoke a response, which I'm my view is simply trolling. Or you truly believe what you say is true, which is quite concerning if you are a retired officer and like my first point means any meaningful debate is pointless witness you.

If you have any issues with my response either PM me, or make a complaint to management. For the reasons I have outlined above I honestly feel any further debate with you is pointless.

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stewie_griffin

Somebody's not telling the whole truth here. I simply cannot believe that any senior officer or PSD would pass up the opportunity to displine someone who used a Taser wrongly, even if the officer 'personally apologised' to the victim.

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Zulu 22
4 hours ago, Remmy said:

Read the news articles and my posts to answer your own question. But just in case you haven't got a clue what training firearms officers go through....the answer is yes very experienced. No thier judgement isn't lacking in fact firearms officers judgement is constantly assessed during training and operations. Although it's something that you would not not appreciate as with all due respect you have never put yourself through such training. 

That said we do make mistakes but if I  am sure you made one or two mistakes during your career. But if they were honest mistakes you learn from them and move on.

You are missing the point totally, these officers were putting themselves in harms way to protect this very community from what they and members of the community believed was an armed threat.

Been there done it worn the T shirt and one who handed in my ticket. Too many mistakes are made which have even led to the deaths of a opfficer in a training exercise which ended with the GMP in Court.

What do you mean by cock up? You are starting to look silly again. Yes Tasers can kill "they are defined as less lethal" not none leathal. I suggest you do a little research into the unfortunate incident that lead to the death of that person and the IPCC investigation into the incident.

The IPCC that originally cleared the officers have gone to Court to have their findings on that case put aside as they want to change their report and its conclussions.

Taser is a tactical option which can and should be used to protect life when it's appropriate not as a last resort. Early use can protect people including subjects from serious harm if used correctly.

Btw I'm assuming you didn't mean last resort means we should shoot him first then taser him? I perfer to use a Taser as a means of avoiding using leathal force first, I find that works best for all during a firearms incident.

But we make assessments on scene. A Taser does not have to be used, the officers could communicate, "Is that a blind person stick you have" "Excuse me but are you Blind"

Once again you really are quite wrong, it seems you have ignored all the points or observations I have raised throughout this thread. I welcome different points of view but only if everyone keeps an open mind.

I can only assume that's for one of the following reasons. It doesn't suit your point of view and I and others can present rational arguments all day long, to no effect as your so obtuse. Or perhaps you are deliberately attempting to provoke a response, which I'm my view is simply trolling. Or you truly believe what you say is true, which is quite concerning if you are a retired officer and like my first point means any meaningful debate is pointless witness you.

It is not trolling to have a different view

 

When I was serving my wife always accused me of standing up for the Police, no matter what, and I did. However since retirement I have mellowed a little and can see when officers have made a mess of things. Believe me it does still hurt to criticise officers when so many do the job so outstandingly well. However what I have said before is that the current day officer has an arrogance and a mindset that they can do no wrong, that they are right and the public are always wrong.

It helps to take note of criticism before waving it blandly away. But we are not going to see eye to eye on this issue

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