Rocket

Blind man Tasered as cane mistaken for gun in Levenshulme

31 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

the current day officer has an arrogance and a mindset that they can do no wrong, that they are right and the public are always wrong.

I think you mean 'old school cops' not 'current day' because we're still dealing with the huge **** ups you left us with. Public cofidence is at an all time low (though still good I'll accept) because of incidents that happened whan many cops, including myself, were either not born or still in school.

The difference now is every mistake is worldwide in seconds not uncovered decades afterwards. Besides which now everyone's an armchair critic. 

Edited by SD
Spelling
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

3 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

When I was serving my wife always accused me of standing up for the Police, no matter what, and I did. However since retirement I have mellowed a little and can see when officers have made a mess of things. ...

the current day officer has an arrogance and a mindset that they can do no wrong, that they are right and the public are always wrong.

 

I'm sure that you, @Zulu22, were a model of humble self-restraint and old fashioned courtesy.

However, it's a bit of a generalisation to tar all 'current day officers' with the arrogant brush.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Taser should be the last resort

Wrong. If it's the most appropriate tool for the situation you better believe I'm going to use it early on.

If I have the tools to defend myself, why on earth would I put myself more in harms way than I already am?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

20 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Taser should be the last resort not the first. 

Really? What would be the point of tasering a dead body after having been shot dead by a firearms officer?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

33 minutes ago, David said:

Really? What would be the point of tasering a dead body after having been shot dead by a firearms officer?

We are talking of a blind man with a white stick being tasered. Not the first, and from what you say not the last.  There is such a thing of communication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

13 hours ago, SD said:

I think you mean 'old school cops' not 'current day' because we're still dealing with the huge **** ups you left us with. Public cofidence is at an all time low (though still good I'll accept) because of incidents that happened whan many cops, including myself, were either not born or still in school.

The difference now is every mistake is worldwide in seconds not uncovered decades afterwards. Besides which now everyone's an armchair critic. 

The accusation of arrogance comes from members of the public who I speak to. As soon as they know what I did it is one of the first points that they make. Not all officers are arrogant, but you only need a few to give the impression.  As for Old School Cops, well my father Policed in the 60's 70's 80's into the 90's. I in the 80's 90's 2,000's, into the 2010's.  During those times Confidence in the Police was pretty high, but from the late 90's it has taken hit after hit and confidence is perhaps at an all time low, and, yes I accept that it is still good.  Perhaps you refer to the corruption in the Met in Sir Robert Marks time which, unfortunately still exists, but accepted only in a few, but a few is too many.

Our forefathers did not have the assistance of DNA and advanced forensic science, armed training etc.  The various Police Memorials show that they paid a high price when defending law and order.

We are talking about a blind man, with a white stick, not the first, to be tasered. Another topic on here highlights another man being tasered for not giving his name and address. In these cases PSD or the IPCC are involved, and not for no reason.

Arrogance is shown when we/you are not prepared to accept criticism or admit that things were done badly or, could have been done better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

15 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

However what I have said before is that the current day officer has an arrogance and a mindset that they can do no wrong

Irony anyone?

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

According to the article in the OP the person who was tasered accepted the apology and understood why his behaviour could lead to the wrong conclusion 

Im struggling to see what the issue is here 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


1 hour ago, Zulu 22 said:

We are talking of a blind man with a white stick being tasered. Not the first, and from what you say not the last.  There is such a thing of communication.

You were the one that said the taser option should be the last resort, not me. If taser is the last resort, that can only leave lethal weapons being used before them ;)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


We are talking about a blind man, with a white stick, not the first, to be tasered.


Which doesn't automatically make it unjustifiable. It's a nice sound bite for people to bash a copper's actions though.

Another topic on here highlights another man being tasered for not giving his name and address. In these cases PSD or the IPCC are involved, and not for no reason.

And where exactly is the evidence he was tasered for failing to give name and address?

As for the IPCC and PSD, they get involved in some capacity every time someone is tasered.. that doesn't mean the officers have done wrong.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

22 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Not foolish at all, honest. I presume that the two officers had good eye sight, so perhaps lacked judgement. Were they experienced in taser, I don't know, but experience is something that you cannot buy. Levenshulme, as you know, is very multi cultural and you cannot afford to lose the respect of the community. This is not the first "cock up" with Taser that the GMP have undergone, and not even in Levenshulme.  The last one in Levenshulme ended in the death of a man, who was Tasered twice.  Taser should be the last resort not the first.  It is strange that the two officers have, allegedly, visited the victim and offered there unreserved apology, or that it is to get a quick resolve to the complaints side of the event.

As you rightly say, We were not there, but the apology would tend to indicate that they could have handled it a lot better, of that, there is little doubt.

Taser should be far before a last resort, in fact taser should be the option before rolling around on the floor with people.  

Saying taser is a 'last resort' shows a total lack of awareness for officer safety, the manufactures of taser themselves do not recommend its deployment without a lethal option to support it. 

The days of police officers suffering injury for the sake of an outdated notion of a peaceful UK have long since gone. 

Edited by funkywingnut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

3 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

We are talking of a blind man with a white stick being tasered. Not the first, and from what you say not the last.  There is such a thing of communication.

Indeed yes we are, for once we agree..... but and it's a very BIG but it's a man that two witnesses believed was carrying a gun, that they could see was agitated and pacing up and down causing them to fear for the safety of others.

The officers had NOTHING to indicate he was indeed blind, the stick was folded up and had the appearance of a side by side shotgun. However they still tried to communicate but unfortunately it wasn't effective, just a guess here perhaps because he was agitated and blind? One of the officers saw an opportunity to use less lethal tactical option, which was successful.  The potential for using lethal force was very high, I certainly would have been reluctant to transition from a firearm to a Taser given the believed threat, at the point of contact. It was in fact a brave action, as the officer is giving up his right of reply if the subject points a firearm at him suddenly and is depending on his colleague to negate that threat. This may sound easy to you but I assure you it's not! Action tends to beat reaction if a subject suddenly points a firearm at you.

3 hours ago, Zulu 22 said:

Arrogance is shown when we/you are not prepared to accept criticism or admit that things were done badly or, could have been done better.

Once again your making yourself look silly. The officers and the force have accepted they were wrong and apologized. We in the firearms world debrief all deployments and they can be quite critical and blunt, but it's not personal it's about improving and learning for next time.

All that said though the officers acted in good faith and used a level of force they thought was reasonable given the circumstances, a decision I believe will be vindicated following an investigation.

Arrogance is word you seem to enjoy throwing about, it is something I have rarely observed in firearms or the police in general at present. But your right it was far more common in the past.

Ironicallyit's a word that often springs to mind when I read your posts ;)

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements


Only you have claimed arrogance was far more common in the past, which is not so. However your comment does lean towards the arrogance that does exist today. The problem is that officers do not acknowledge a possibility of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

54 minutes ago, Zulu 22 said:

Only you have claimed arrogance was far more common in the past, which is not so. However your comment does lean towards the arrogance that does exist today. The problem is that officers do not acknowledge a possibility of it.

Actually I claimed it also because it's true.  There is plenty of evidence to support it too. From anecdotal evidence which included drink driving being accepted and a blind eye turned if stopped, officers dealing their own interpretation of restorative justice to out and out perverting the course of justice. Or more substantial scandals such as Hillsborough, Orgreave and Jimmy Saville. So I'll treat your opinions with the contempt that it deserves because I'm still picking up the pieces of rubbish you kindly left for my generation of police officers.

Oh and no longer do I deal with jobs such as DV incidents in 10 mins like your generation did because I treat it seriously and no longer do I accept overt racism, sexism and general intolerance like your generation did. If you went frontline now you wouldn't last a set of shifts before going off long term sick. I know because I see it all the time.

Now I've gone well and truly off topic so don't bother to reply because I certainly won't. 

Edited by Chief Cheetah
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

So, where were we?  White sticks and tasering, I think's that was what this is supposed to be about.

If we can get back to topic that'd great, if we can't then this will be closed to further comment.

Cheers

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member Achievements

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now