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  1. Westminster terror attack (22/03/2017)

    First and foremost, know that your Thin Blue Line family here in the US stands proud with our blue brothers and sisters in the UK. You've been on the minds of myself and my fellow officers here ever since the news broke. You may know or may have seen our tradition where we shroud our badges with a mourning band after the loss of an officer. Today I have shrouded my badge, in honor of PC Keith Palmer and the life he gave today in the fight against the evil in this world. Let us not forget Keith and all those who run towards danger while everyone else is running away. On that note I raise a glass to our fellow officers that ran towards terror today. For those that ended the threat and those that worked to help the injured and restore peace and security, great job. "And maybe remind the few, if ill of us they speak, that we are all that stands, between the monsters and the weak"
  2. I'm a PC. I was a Special. Always been a cop. I'll more than happily have a frank conversation with anyone that disagrees. We harp on and on about the differentiation in skills between specials and regulars, much like the army did with the (then) TA. See "STABs". Cue 10 years later, and as a nation we've sent out Army Reserve soldiers to Afghan and Iraq to fight shoulder to shoulder with their regular colleagues with great success. 2 of the 3 SAS regiments are formed predominantly of reservists. Retained firefighters are competent; Army, RAF and Navy reservists are competent; NCA Specials are competent. See the trend? I invite anyone to tell me that operating in an actual war-zone is any less challenging than policing a city on Saturday night, because it's just not. There is a lack of skill in some, or many, specials, but that's not an indication of their inability to perform, it's an indicator of poor training, investment and management. Forces in the UK have suffered from a chronic lack of trust in our Specials, which then causes the skill deficiency that we all seem so hellbent on pointing out. Perhaps we should have a word with ourselves and start trusting the good folks that put on the uniform and get stuck in? 5 years ago, most of my force would scoff at a special having TPAC or an advanced bike course. Pan forward to the present, and some do, and are far more competent than I am. Don't even try to tell me that Specials can't use Taser, because I know of one that was trained and carried taser, and pottered on more than able to handle herself- strangely, hell hasn't quite yet frozen over. Rather facetiously, that means that 100% of the specials that I've met with taser were able to handle it. I fully expect the inevitable 'oh but surfer that's different, the army are different, it's comparing apples and oranges' ad nauseum. The simple fact is that volunteers can and are able to be more than competent enough. If we're going to arm our regulars (and I fully support routine arming), we should arm our specials. Also, as an aside- I was chased around a panda by a bloke with a machete once, as a special. That wasn't a call, it was something I came across.
  3. Negative aspects of the job

    good lord i could go on forever. today i attended a call of five males beating another one with a hammer and attacking him with knives. they made off in a car just as i got there. i followed the car and stopped it nearby. five males jumped out aggressively. it was 5v2. all were detained with great difficulty and good manners (on our part). nearby a large group of average middle class people started to gather. presumably they would be grateful for us risking our safety to take knives off these violent gang members who have PNC records longer than the lord of the rings trilogy. nope! they start screaming at us, filming us and shouting no wonder everyone thinks we're all racist. shouting "they did nothing!" as we leave with prisoners i hear some of the group loudly informing other passers by that the group were simply driving fast and we have got out and attacked them for no reason. remember these are the same people who complain loudly about "police doing nothing" when they get robbed/burgled. i think the thing i dislike most about the job is how it has turned me into such a jaded bitter individual with such a low (but realistic) opinion of 80% of English society. i was happier not knowing.
  4. Where are we heading...

    Really the austerity cuts were a huge opportunity for us to legitimately redraw the boundaries and set sensible parameters for what we would deal with and how. Some forces have gone further than others but I still think we have not gone far enough. Mental Health - quite reasonably it could be questioned why police attend the vast majority of mental health concern calls. Where there is a real risk of harm the police will always be in attendance - to 'make safe' the scene. However, that should be where the police job ends. Crisis teams should be going out and seeing people who are in crisis. Not sending the police to spend hours trying to get advice over the phone and then attend A&E with the patient. There are very few mental health patients who want a police officer when they are on crisis - and there are a number who (through no direct fault of the attending officers) have a more traumatic experience due to police involvement. Sudden death of seriously ill patients on end of life plans - the general guidance states that GPs / out of hours doctors should attend these calls and issue a death certificate. This would provide a better service to the family, cut police demand and also prevent unnecessary coroner actions. Social services - we all know the trend of social service departments nationwide of sending police to social services jobs and having police act as proxy social workers commanded by the on duty social worker by telephone. Low level social media crime - Internet providers are making millions of pounds from their social media platforms and yet police are launching criminal investigations which cost time and money. For low level trolling/abuse the onus should be on such providers to police their platforms and the police should only become involved in more serious offences. Harassment - the police have become the architects of their own demise in this area. Since 1997 we have made many people believe that they can dictate on the spot who has the right to contact them and when...with minor transgressions achieving a criminal label of harassment involving lengthy investigation which ultimately ends in no further action. Harassment warnings have been given out like confetti leading to a dilution of their utility and the state.of affairs where people demand a harassment warning be given. Statutory nuisance/ASB - councils and social landlords have managed to avoid their responsibilities in many areas. Police officers attend these incidents and then pass on the information to these departments, receive the correspondence before passing it back to the person reporting - why do police need to be involved at all? Petrol driveoffs - there are lots of safeguards the petrol station businesses can put in place to tackle drive offs yet we don't put any onus on them. We conduct police investigations only for petrol stations to decline to assist once they recieve the 20 quid owed from the offender. Shoplifting - with commerical retailers running their own security, loss prevention and civil recovery schemes we could easily tweak the shoplifting response plans to put more responsibility on private security (this runs in several force areas to good effect). Retail crime packs (proforma witness statements, CCTV production instructions etc) mean that police officers attending have their evidence ready at point of attendance and they can quickly conduct their investigation. The amount of stores reporting very low level shopliftings which take the OIC several weeks to progress due to staff unavailability or CCTV unavailability is leading to huge demand pressures in some areas. I would go further and suggest that in shoplifting cases where the offender is located at scene and the goods recovered in a saleable condition then stores should conduct their civil recovery process and the police should merely record a crime for recording purposes - only becoming involved with prolific/violent/uncooperative offenders in these circumstances. Appointment systems - many forces have officers bending over backwards attending mulťiple appointments to see victims of crime who fail to keep the appointments and in many cases we can chase people for weeks. In my area alone these diary appointments take up around 1/4 of the response capability on early and late shifts. It's not an efficient way of dealing with low level incidents. The default option could be that persons will attend the police station to report/discuss such low level matters with officer attendance saved for only the more serious/needed incidents. RTCs - of course there is a place for police in attending RTCs but the system for recording them is archaic. For low level RTCs why can they not be reported online via a step by step dummy guide completed by the drivers with a freephone helpline for any issues. Statements - whilst there are circumstances whereby it might be beneficial for police to take a statement, why can purely routine continuity/factual statements not be completed by witnesses themselves? It happens in other legal jurisdictions without huge fanfare. A quick dummies guide attached to an online proforma would do the job quite well for CCTV statements etc. MisPers/Concerns - just as we have minimum concerns we expect from colleagues...why not from persons reporting? I'd be expecting at minimum that persons reporting would have already made hospital enquiries, visits to known associates addresses and partners addresses before picking up the phone. Probably 1 in 10 of my elderly misperceptions/concerns calls have been successfully completed by me without ever attending an address. It's not uncommon now for adult children to report concern at not hearing from their parent for a few days when they live an hour away and they haven't made the effort to attend the address themselves and use their key! That's just a snippet of my views on where we should be going, there's a huge discussion to be had.
  5. Just catching up on this folks after a short break so I apologise in advance if I go over old ground. But before I start, I will try to avoid direct criticism of those involved because at the end of the day they tried to do thier best in a frightening, stressful and very dynamic situation. However there is no way of avoiding some actions that the officers took which clearly could have been done better. Secondly to put this issue to bed once and for all (as some members clearly seem to have an issue with this), could leathal force have been used in these circumstances, the simple answer is YES!!! Would I personally have drawn my firearm yes, would I have considered using deadly force yes, as I would never draw unless I was prepared to do so, would have I shot the subject yes without any doubt, if the escalation of force have failed and a colleague's life was in danger. Of course this doesn't mean I want to use leathal force, I like to think given my experience and knowledge I would have dealt with this situation slightly differently and perhaps avoided the need for leathal force but who knows that for sure we are always responding to the actions of the subject in a fast moving incident such as this. As for what happened during this actual incident yes there are 2 armed ARV officers carrying both conventional firearms and Taser. I suspect they have not been deployed as firearms officers but are there to support unarmed colleagues. However I would expect better control and drills from ARV officers given thier training. Time and space in these situations are our best defence, the initial set up is good, ARV Taser drawn good view of door and subject not too close but within effective range for Taser and with dog support out of firing line. At this point I would also have expected or hoped for more decisive action from the dog handler. However were it all starts to go wrong is when the second ARV closes the subject down and effectively blocks his colleagues shot with the Taser.... why he gained absolutely no tactical advantage in doing so. But we all do daft things from time to time I hope he reflects and learns from the incident. The situation still could have been recovered but as is often the case once things start going pear-shaped it becomes harder to recover. There is nothing wrong with withdrawing at this point but in a controlled manner and most importantly if it's safe to do so. Clearly turning your backs and running and leaving an unarmed colleague trapped in a confined space with a subject who armed and clearly dangerous is probably not the best way of doing that. I would hope for the ARV'S to consider all the tactical options at thier disposal at this point and perhaps see the dog being deployed to allow a safe withdrawal or for the threat to be neutralised or reduced to a safe level. I found this video very distressing to watch and found it very frustrating to see the situation being allowed to develop to the point it did. As I said at the start these things happen and the important thing is we all learn from these incidents. Taser isn't the solution to all threats we face it has its limitations, neither is a convenient firearm but it's essential that both are quickly available to all officers facing such a threat.
  6. This week marks a significant milestone in the history of Police Community, one which we are very excited about but brings with it some significant challenges. Many of our membership will recall the day on the 31st October 2014 when we, as a Management and Moderation Team walked away from three other forum sites to create Police Community. We left behind; www.policespecials.com www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk www.policeuk.com This was a decision that we did not take lightly but at the time felt we had to do the right thing for us and for the membership. Thankfully the majority of the membership believed in the team and embarked on that journey with us resulting in Police Community being born. This brought together Regulars, Specials, Police Staff, PCSO's and Volunteers under one umbrella and a forum for the wider policing family grew. Since that time the Managing Director at Red Snapper Media, the owners of the other forums have been in touch and after some recent negotiations Police Community have now taken ownership of all three of their forums. This means that as of today the management and ownership of all of the forums has transferred to Police Community. Clearly this is a welcomed position that we are very pleased with and now need to work out our strategy to take all four forums forwards. Decisions around the future of all the forums will be made in the fullness of time but for the time being the intention is that all forums will continue to exist as separate sites with my Moderation Team taking over the moderation across all forums. Out of this acquisition, a professional business relationship with Red Snapper Media has been formed and we will look to develop an advertising strategy to help promote some of Red Snapper's products whilst they mutually promote all four of the forums across their extensive media network. This is a mutually agreeable position that brings benefits to all concerned and we are delighted with the partnership we have formed with Red Snapper Media to allow this to happen. What does this mean for our membership? In simple terms it means there is no change for anyone, all forums will continue to exist at this time and you will be able to continue to use whichever forum you feel most comfortable being apart of. We will be looking to upgrade Police Specials, UKPoliceOnline and Police UK to the latest version of the forum software to ensure their future viability. We may alter the structure of a few areas etc but in the main they will be largely unchanged apart from the Police Community Team now Moderating across all four forums. We would like to take this opportunity to thank Martin Jerrold at Red Snapper Media who has made clear that he wants the forums to continue and took very seriously his responsibility to agree the best possible home for the forums moving forwards. We would also like to thank the membership across all four forums for their continued support. Over the coming weeks there will be some periods of downtime for Police Specials, UKPoliceOnline and Police UK whilst we transfer the sites fully to our servers, upgrade the software and hardware arrangements and get them fit for the future. I would personally like to thank you in advance for your anticipated support. Police Community Forum will remain online throughout. As many of you will know Chief Rat and myself have been at the helm of all the forums at one point in time or another historically, and more recently here on Police Community. We have been supported by a fantastic team of Moderators both past and present who commit their own time to moderating and managing the forum. This team has been led by Cheetah who was promoted to "Lead Moderator" when Police Community was incepted. He has done a fantastic job and has supported the Management Team so much so that he was promoted to a junior Management Role in 2016. His commitment and dedication has been invaluable and with the new challenges that now lie ahead in managing four forums I would like to formally welcome Cheetah to the full Management Team here at Police Community. Cheetah will be changing his name to Chief Cheetah in recognition of his full management role and will have an equal role to that of Chief Rat and myself across all four forums. If you have any questions please feel free to ask but this is most definitely going to be an exciting time for the future of the Police Community group of forums. Chief Bakes Co-Founder of Police Community *UPDATE* Please see this statement from our Strategic Partner Martin Jerrold, Managing Director of Red Snapper Media http://www.rawdigitalmedia.co.uk/statement-from-martin-jerrold/
  7. On Friday 26th June 2017, less than a week ago, I passed out as a PC. Since my last update, training has been a mixture a three week response driving course, final knowledge checks and consolidation days, parade practice and our pass out parade. Our standard response driving course was incredible and by far one of the best parts of the 26 week training course. We traveled up and down the force every day at crazy speeds and I loved every second of it, blue lights especially! The final driving test was so nerve-wracking, so much more scary than my actual driving test, and passing with only three minors left me absolutely over the moon and so ready to jump in a job car for real. Since finishing the driving course, we've been back in HQ for some frantic, last-minute lessons that we've missed throughout the six months and preparation for our Pass Out parade which would soon be coming up. And it did soon come! With our final week having finally arrived, I think a weird sense of bitter-sweet came over all of us, including our trainers. The day we'd all been waiting and wishing for since the day we got our acceptances, and now that it was finally here, we were sad for training to be coming to an end. The bond that we made as a group was something I never thought would happen in such a short time. The friends I have made on the training course are ones I know I will be mates with for life, a reminder of where we all started and a friendly face to turn to in times of need. The day of our Pass Out soon came around and with bulled boots and pressed uniform, we all lined up ready to march in in front of all of our family and friends for a final farewell. I've never felt more proud of myself, and those around me, in my whole life. I cannot believe the amount I have learnt in the past six months and even more so cannot believe that it's over. Our trainer calls us to attention and we all individually get called up to receive our certificates and shake the chiefs hand. Then come the awards, the Highest Achiever going to the officer who is coming to my station with me, who deserved such an award so much for all his hard work, the Most Improved award for one of the single mums on the course who has improved in confidence every single day since day one, and the Chief Constables Award for Outstanding Achievement, which was awarded to one of the best friends I've ever made in my whole life, a girl who deserved it more than anyone else in the world and who was born to be PC. I am so proud of all of us for making it this far and every single one of the people I trained with will make excellent officers! I think the realisation has hit me now that this is it, it's finally time to get out there for real. I've never been so nervous but excited in my life! I've also never cried as much as I did on our last day, realising that most of us will be working opposite ends of a very large force and some of us may never cross paths again. But I'm so ready for the start of the real training, my tutorship out on division, which will last 15 weeks, and the rest of my career in such an amazing job. Yesterday, I met John Sutherland, author of 'Blue: A Memoir, Keeping the Peace and Falling to Pieces', a man who has quickly become an inspiration to me and who's book I highly recommend to everyone, whether in the job or not. Bring on Sunday and my first ever shift as a PC!! Thank you for reading x
  8. This is a cringeworthy comment that always comes up when this sort of thing is discussed. Every single day we trust police officers with wide ranging skills and abilities to protect people. If YOU as a retired police officer openly says that you dont think you could trust a police officer with a firearm, having been trained and assessed in it's carriage, then what kind of impression does that give to the public? It's embarrassing, and I honestly don't think it's in any way an accurate reflection of the current police service - certainly not in my experience. Sure, there are some who are less capable than others, but they don't go around batoning people in the head every day, and I can't see why they would go around shooting people unnecessarily either.
  9. I've stopped worrying about it. I'm not going to keep working progressively harder and harder as there are more and more cuts to make up for it when my workload was already crippling before. I'll deal with what I can and deal with it properly and if there's 50 outstanding emergency calls with nobody to go to them as there often is on the area I work, then there is. Not my fault. If the country they want is one infested with crime and antisocial behaviour and a police force with two hands tied behind their back then that's what they'll get. It's just a shame it won't be the MPs that suffer, it will be the public.
  10. Not seen the video at this stage, but my initial feeling is that if the police deliberately hit a motorbike and riders that had been involved in a crime (and so long as it was properly considered and sanctioned), then - good. Spare me the bleeding heart do-gooding whining; perhaps this will make others think twice instead of now possibly deliberately choosing such a mode of transport because they think they're untouchable.
  11. BTP and MOD will likely be told to carry at all times because to exercise the powers of a constable not under BTP jurisdiction they must either be in uniform or provide warrant card ie. Even ON duty they must have their warrant card to use their powers if extended jurisdiction under ATSA. I carry mine all the time. Its personal preference if I need to ID myself, holds my debit card and is my free travel pass. As for being off duty, having a drink and getting involved...it's a massive judgement call but I've done it probably a dozen times, to assist on duty officers, in 8 years. That was only to prevent serious injury to the officers involved. I was 'in drink' but not paralytic. Those who say you should never do it had better hope they never require help from an off duty colleague on a night out. I was pinned to the floor and beaten on duty in full uniform whilst working the City Centre 4 years ago. A crowd of 50, including uniformed council enforcement officers, stood looking on. It was an off duty BTP copper on a night out who came and dragged the offender off of me and helped get him cuffed. If he had adopted the attitude displayed on here I might have been very seriously injured or even dead. I nominated him, and he was presented, with a commendation for his efforts and I remain grateful to him to this day. Food for thought.
  12. In 8 years of Policing I can say the trait I find that gets cops most into bother or injured is indecisiveness. The inability to make a proactive decision or make any kind of decision at all will usually lead to a situation escalating or allow a suspect to start taking the mick. When it comes to dealing with people I have a fairly low tolerance for abusive, threatening behaviour. I will usually end up ejecting/reporting people for summons or yes arresting when the need arises to... I really cannot stand people making a mockery of the justice system or our society in general and I generally will deal with things when called to them. I'm not tall and I'm not built, I'm certainly not intimidating but I lay down the rules and take action when needed... It hasn't led me wrong yet... I also never threaten something I'm not willing to actually carry out, countless times I've seen cops in person and on social media say "if you do xyz one more time I'm going to arrest you..." 10 chances later the same warning is still being given. My advice to new starters is: 1. Know your powers and necessity to arrest like the back of your hand, byelaws are important on the railway and are very useful. 2. Never be afraid to take positive action against someone, be it ejection, report or arrest. 3. Never threaten an action you aren't actually willing to undertake.
  13. Response Officers

    Response is rubbish. You are nothing to nobody. The bosses don't care about you. The public dislike you. The specialist units think you're a pleb...............I could go on. I like others will give you a brief overview of a typical day for me in the world of LPT (Local Policing Team) a rubbish amalgamation of what was Response (when it was good) and NPT (which was and always will be bunk). We brief, some days with 30 officers, others with 6-10. This is where the first shafting of the day occurs. Crews are detailed out, you're almost guaranteed to get stuck with someone you don't get on with. The second shafting occurs when you are met with a number of outstanding tasks to do for the proceeding section, house to house, interviews, court runs etc etc etc. The third shafting occurs before you have even had a chance to log on and check your crimes/emails/roster when the controllers dish out 'outstanding' (something deeply ironic about that) calls that the other sections haven't got to. These calls can be hours, days or even weeks old. When you eventually get out the door, its in an under powered Vauxhall Astra that the previous officer left with fumes in the tank, is far too small for a bloke wearing ballistic armor and a gun-belt and is horribly dirty inside. You arrive up at the door of the person who called the police hours/days/weeks ago and are met with abuse, because they have had to wait for a police response. You take a statement for what is most likely somebody calling somebody names over Facebook and 'file' it away in your 'never to be looked at again' pile and promise the caller you will speak to the 'offender' about their actions. You warn the 'offender' about their behavior, only to be told it was the caller who started it all. Once you have eventually dealt with all the stuff you've been asked to do, you finally get a chance to traipse back to the station, get a brew and work your way through an endless list of emails, tasks and logs. You find you wish you hadn't. You head back out after a quick pit stop, which was actually more detrimental to you in the hope of dishing out a few tickets or getting a drugs detection. You head to the usual spots and there's nobody about, you drive around aimlessly for a bit, but the motorists are behaving. Then the calls start............for the next few hours, you're run ragged, from one end of your division to the other. RTCs, domestics, thefts, civil disputes, suicidal people, you name it! Eventually, its time for a refs break, you carefully select a sandwich or other delightful treat (or if you're like me start to think about what you brought from home) and tootle back in to the station, with the hope of getting a bit of respite. As soon as the microwave bings or you begin to unwrap your sandwich, the radio goes again and you get tipped out to another call. And there goes your refs break, by the time the call is dealt with, another call-sign has put themselves on a break and the controller says "No, sorry, you'll have to hold off for a while, you're my only car" And the calls start again................. The end is in sight, you've had no break, no food and nothing but water has passed your lips since that brew in the morning. Your callsign gets shouted on the radio, a nice simple one to finish the day off. You arrive at the call, its not simple, its all gone wrong, you have to arrest somebody. There's a 2 hour wait to get into the custody suite, they're having their change over. Eventually, a good few hours after you were meant to finish you're stood staring into your locker, taking your vest off, undoing your gun-belt and throwing it in to the bottom of your locker. You get home and you sit down and think to yourself, "what a day!!" and realise you can't see yourself doing any other job.
  14. Is it legal?

    I personally only look for rapists and murders. Anything less than that isn't worth my time.
  15. I'd like to see an unedited video before I throw this officer under the bus for being racist. I have had, better worded, similar discussions with members of the public during a S60 operation. Black people are disproportionally stopped by police for stop search in London if you consider the population breakdown but also disproportionally represent crime suspects for street crime (I belive the information for that statistic was based on victim description). A similar theme occurs in heavily Asian populated areas in Northern Cities. The trend almost certainly would have been reflected in S44 terrorism searches at rail stations in 2005/2006. A similar trend occurs with white British tourists in Thailand tourist areas for drugs stops. Now people are saying 'profiling' is wrong - actually profiling is intelligence led policing. Random arbitrary stops based on skin colour are not profiling - they're unlawful and abhorrent. People make a joke about it but Lancashire police will be more likely to delve further into a 66 plate Audi of early 20s Scousers than they would a black male in a Bentley - because it fits the crime demographic for car key burglary. It might seem unfair to Scousers but I would hazard a guess that without coppers 'profiling' and conducting proactive traffic stops alot of serious crime would go undetected. **** So I'm not agreeing with the Met officer...I can't - because I don't know what he said and why. If they were the first words out of his mouth to this DJ then he could well be bigoted and due for a new career. Or he might have fallen victim to race baiting and video editing. I'd be interested to know the registration details and insurance information for the Bentley as well because that might provide more sensible grounds for the stop than 'black man in expensive motor - must have nicked it' subtext that's being pushed (and swallowed by members here it would seem).
  16. Funnily enough I had a stand off with a lad the other day who had littered and was stopped by a warden who had refused to provide details to, myself and a PCSO were on the station conducting patrols due to ASB issues. Bloke refuses details to me, he's recording me at this point on his phone. I promised him if he didn't give his name I'd be locking him up for littering and refusing to provide details to the warden, he gave in and handed over his I.D after this. Walking away the PCSO turned to me and said: "What would you have done if he still refused his details?" "I'd have locked him up..." Came my reply. The PCSO couldn't believe that I was willing to arrest someone for littering but at the end of the day that lad was willing to make a mockery of the system simply because he thought he could choose to get away with it. That's why we have a necessity to arrest clause at the end of the day, in my mind it doesn't matter what the offence is, you can't let idiots totally pull down the rules in place because they don't want to pay a fine. Perhaps if we the police and other bodies enforced the little things with more vigor we would see far less of the more serious issues within society.
  17. Funniest/memorable time in police

    After dealing with a DOA we took the body to the hospital morgue to retrieve personal belongings. The sergeant who was with me asked the attendant if he wanted the body moving off the stretcher to the prep table. I was told to take the top end and took hold under the arms and around the chest. As I lifted the body up it exhaled with a loud huh! I dropped the body back onto the stretcher and ran to the morgue door screaming for me mam. At the door I turned and saw my sergeant and the attendant wetting themselves with laughter. This was my first DOA, I was 19 and straight out of training school, and had been well and truly set up. At the time I was terrified and couldn't see the funny side. Now 33 years on and my therapy is finished and last night I slept with the light off.
  18. The issue is multi faceted but to address two points. We DO have an issue with police officers not willing to get hands on and be assertive. There's plenty of reasons for this. When I first became a Special I was known for being a bit of a 'pitbull', probably because I already had over 3 years of being a PCSO where we confronted and detained offenders. The majority of my colleagues as Specials did not come from confrontational backgrounds. Some found it easier than others to fight people and take others liberty. After a while I 'calmed down' and became lax, following the status quo. Not long after I was violently assaulted whilst singly crewed in the city centre. I learned my lesson, don't take risks with your safety. I became a bit 'lively' again, before becoming a PC. 2 years after becoming a PC I had followed the status quo again and adopted local practice ie not handcuffing, not holding onto my prisoners as I walked them into custody, leaving their property in their pockets when I put them in the car after a s32 search. Not long after I had a few incidents go wrong due to adopting the local standards and stepped my game up again. It cause some frictions with people as what I was doing wasn't 'how it's done'. I've transferred to a new force and I haven't assimilated. I keep my own standards even though it does attract some comments from people 'why do you do that?' Etc. I've reached the stage in my career where I know what I do and why I do it. I don't need to follow local custom just to fit in. The second point is society. There are many great quotes out there covering use of force which I don't need to reproduce here but essentially policing is a violent job. Just as you shouldn't join the army if you're not willing to kill the enemy, you shouldn't join the police if you're not willing to get stuck in and take down bad people using the force that's necessary. Unfortunately somewhere along the line the UK has become uber liberal, even the act of arresting somebody now is controversial and rather than backing officers the senior management and politicians have decided to sit on the fence. This ends in a self fulfilling prophecy. The public now BELIEVE that police brutality exists in the UK whereas what we usually see with that title attached is merely use of force.
  19. Much respect to the bravery of those officers who charged in and especially the one that got seriously injured in the process. Unfortunately though he was unable to do anything to protect himself or others and instead became another victim while the attackers carried on. Your job - our job - is to protect the people. Preserve life. How can you do that today without the proper tools? I don't see where you are "giving up" anything by arming all of your officers since it appears to be perfectly OK with everyone with those with the guns, masks, and tactical gear finally show up and put a stop to the carnage. I spent two days last week going through my departments ALERRT class (advanced law enforcement rapid response training) which deals with neutralizing active shooters/threats. One thing the instructors repeated - "If not you, then who?" Meaning if not us to go in and save these people, then who? Who else has the training? The courage and the mindset? And if you don't have the tools to do it, then how effective will you be? You don't have to be a SWAT or "specialist" officer to do these things. This class was taught to every officer. Every patrolman, every detective, every administrative/command staff member. There was training on how to do it with 1-4 officers on scene. Every officer needs to have the tools, the training, and the mindset to get to work because when it happens you could be the closest one that can stop it, not to mention the simple right to be able to defend yourself. How many more officers need to be maimed & buried before something changes? How many citizens & visitors? To address the other argument - in no way should it be voluntary. Only some want the ability to stop deadly threats but not everyone? You don't work at a supermarket and this comes with the risks when you accepted the job. You owe it to the public and your fellow officers to be as prepared as you possibly can be. Every sworn officer here is issued a firearm. If they don't want it then they are no longer an officer. It doesn't matter if you sit at a desk for 12 hours a day. You could walk out of the office to go to lunch and be face to face with a threat. "....that I will uphold fundamental human rights....cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property...."
  20. Uniforms in the met. What can be worn

    You'll wear what you are told to wear. Simple, isn't it?
  21. Westminster terror attack (22/03/2017)

    Just to echo some of what has been said already, and as a police officer who works in a country where we lose far too many officers each year, if anything it would be a dishonor to Keith's memory to not discuss ways to keep this from happening again and move in that direction. Sometimes these discussions go places we don't want to go, and that's ok, but it's important. The questions should be now not only why, but what can you do to keep it from happening again, whether that means a change in tactics, training, equipment, policy, etc. Our FBI actually has a whole unit devoted to studying line of duty deaths and then teaches a class to law enforcement on what went wrong and how to change it. Many of the things we do now, we do because of those that have fallen before us. Do not let Keith's death to have been in vain. My own thoughts, as are probably already known, is you need to be armed. Period. No offence intended but I don't feel that it should be a personal choice it should be policy. Baton, spray, taser, firearm. Not in your car. Not in the office. On your side. Everywhere you go. Personal choice is when no one else's life is at stake but your own. When it is your duty to protect others then you should be equipped as such. We may not know if Keith being armed would have saved his life but it certainly could have given him a better chance. You can't overlook that it was the armed officers who stopped the threat from continuing on. If they weren't where they were who knows how many other victims there would be. This is the world we live in now and it's time to take notice as unfortunately, it's not going away. We're a target because of the uniform we wear. We will be one of the first ones targeted because to the attacker, we are now the threat that is standing in their way and the only one who can stop them. Head on a swivel everyone.
  22. Read the news articles and my posts to answer your own question. But just in case you haven't got a clue what training firearms officers go through....the answer is yes very experienced. No thier judgement isn't lacking in fact firearms officers judgement is constantly assessed during training and operations. Although it's something that you would not not appreciate as with all due respect you have never put yourself through such training. That said we do make mistakes but if I am sure you made one or two mistakes during your career. But if they were honest mistakes you learn from them and move on. You are missing the point totally, these officers were putting themselves in harms way to protect this very community from what they and members of the community believed was an armed threat. What do you mean by cock up? You are starting to look silly again. Yes Tasers can kill "they are defined as less lethal" not none leathal. I suggest you do a little research into the unfortunate incident that lead to the death of that person and the IPCC investigation into the incident. Taser is a tactical option which can and should be used to protect life when it's appropriate not as a last resort. Early use can protect people including subjects from serious harm if used correctly. Btw I'm assuming you didn't mean last resort means we should shoot him first then taser him? I perfer to use a Taser as a means of avoiding using leathal force first, I find that works best for all during a firearms incident. Not strange at all I would gladly acknowledge if I'm wrong and apologize if I was involved in this incident. We mean no harm to the people we deal with, firearms officers are still police officers who strive to protect life and protect the public from harm. However I would also explain why we took the actions we did, which the organisation has. As I have pointed out already we work on the information and intelligence available at the time, we do not have access to hindsight. Once again you really are quite wrong, it seems you have ignored all the points or observations I have raised throughout this thread. I welcome different points of view but only if everyone keeps an open mind. I can only assume that's for one of the following reasons. It doesn't suit your point of view and I and others can present rational arguments all day long, to no effect as your so obtuse. Or perhaps you are deliberately attempting to provoke a response, which I'm my view is simply trolling. Or you truly believe what you say is true, which is quite concerning if you are a retired officer and like my first point means any meaningful debate is pointless witness you. If you have any issues with my response either PM me, or make a complaint to management. For the reasons I have outlined above I honestly feel any further debate with you is pointless.
  23. Really?

    Moved to a more appropriate location. I think @JD180has summed it up quite well really. When we took on the three extra sites we had to look at ways of financing them. The software for the sites comes with a cost that is ongoing. This maintains the latest version and security updates. Not only do we have the forum software but there are numerous add on's and again these cost money as does hosting and all the other costs associated with a vibrant online community. We would love to provide this completely free for all but it simply isn't viable. Those that contribute financially to the sites get a more functions and areas than those who make use of the free account. We had hoped that the amount of paying members coupled with the sponsorship and advertising would be sufficient to give the whole site to all but it simply isn't that easy and add to this the future development of the site we needed to look what was the main reason for using the site and the services we provide. The simple fact is that we used to have a lot of members who would come and read the recruitment areas and not contribute and then others who sign up for the free account, ask a recruitment question and then never come back so we took a management decision to charge a very small fee to use those areas. We structured the membership groups around what people use the site for and how much but at the same time we recognised that it had been built by the members we had. This is why we took the decision to allow the 'Resident' members to still have access to those areas but newer members wouldn't. The simple answer is that to keep the forums running for those who use the free accounts we needed to find a way to fund it and this is just one of the ways.
  24. As usual Sceptre makes a valid point, succinctly - We do not explain in proper terms using ordinary language and do not speak matter of factly. Our elitism over the past 20 years or so has effected our standing. If we are uber professional demi-Gods then why is it that we occasionally do something that doesn't seem professional to the public? I'd say unrealistic training expectations play a large part in this issue. Point 1. We are given in the realms of 32 hours initial use of force training and 8 hours a year refresher training and yet we talk of home office approved techniques, escalation of force etc and we are judged as if we are ninjas - by both the public and the disciplinary system. We are expected to be prof To put that into perspective - if we were looking at an amateur jiu jitsu enthusiast (jiu jitsu can cover a broad spectrum of the use of force tactics used by police) you would expect a committed participant who was looking to attain a level of real world competence to attend two 1 hour sessions a week. After 6 months of attending their club twice a week they would have an appreciation of the basics of jiu jitsu. They would not, however, be considered competent. They would probably have passed their first qualification stage. After 12 months they would probably be quite proficient in stances, take downs and delivering strikes and be looking at more technical moves. By this stage they would have in the region of 100 hours of training time. A police officer hoping to have had the same amount of training input would probably have to have been in the job for 8 years. However, due to the training being condensed and only repeated yearly there is almost zero chance of muscle memory being obtained from the training offered. The police officer with 8 years in the job who isn't regularly utilising his officer safety skills is less competent than somebody who has been taking martial arts classes as a hobby for a year. The system has set the police officer up to fail with unreasonable expectations in comparison to the training received. Point 2. Most of us have completed one 8 hour input on mental health including powers, common signs and symptoms and force policy. We also probably completed a 90 minute e-learning package. A mental health nurse, prior to registration, completes 3 years of foundation training in all aspects of mental health geared to one of four specific specialty areas. This initial training includes on the job clinical training. Once registered there are ad hoc CPD training courses to keep them competent and up to date. Police officers with their training deficit, compared to even a newly qualified mental health nurse, has received somewhere in the region less than 1% of the training of the mental health professional. They are, however, asked to go to addresses and conduct what is ostensibly a mini mental health act assessment on behalf of the NHS. Half the time there are crime issues at play also - police officers are expected to juggle their responsibility to policing and mental health. Mental health professionals refuse to attend patients at the scene. Police officers must make the choice and discover the legal route for whether a person receive mental health assistance. Police officers are set up to fail. Point 3 We receive no (well I haven't in any of the three police forces I have been in) meaningful safeguarding training beyond being told of the power to take children into emergency police protection - a 1 hour PowerPoint presentation conducted as part of police foundation training. Social workers, prior to registration, either complete a 3 year social work course or a 2 year conversion course of they are a graduate from a different discipline. They receive as part of this on the job training with mentorship. Again, police officers attend daily safeguarding incidents, particularly with regards to children, which require instant decisions to be made. Social services will not attend the scene. In many cases it is social services who have passed the buck onto the untrained frontline police officer. They will, ironically, State to police officers that it is the officers decision as he is the one at scene...yet refuse the invitation to attend themselves to assess. There are many, many more examples to fit my point with varying degrees of relevance (I'm not even first aid at work trained and I'm sent to ambulance calls weekly!) and it leads me to two conclusions - either we put our hands up and admit we are not trained to do a large amount of what we currently undertake but we do the best we can in the circumstances or we stop going to jobs which aren't our remit. To be honest, without further training and input from the professionals in the relevant fields I'd be happier to go for the latter. If the public think we are ineffective at what we do I'd be interested to see what would happen if were taken out of the equation and responsibility was put back to those trained and paid to specialise.
  25. There is actually a shortcoming in the law here. If they suspected he was Mr Wanted Man and Mr Wanted Man was circulated for being wanted in connection with an offence and s.24 arrest powers apply then if they reasonably suspected him of being Mr Wanted Man then of course they have a power of arrest. As soon as he refused details after they explained they thought he was Mr Wanted man then they should have immediately arrested him. If, however, Mr Wanted Man was wanted on a warrant of arrest then that power of arrest only applies to Mr Wanted Man and even if they act in good faith and genuinely suspect that this chap is Mr Wanted Man and arrest him but he turns out not to be then the arrest is unlawful unfortunately. The man is clearly something of a tit though. Interactions being needlessly escalated because someone is an uncooperative prat happens frustratingly too often. Nevertheless, the law permits people to be uncooperative prats on many occasions though.
  26. This is absolute realms of fantasy equal to shooting him in the leg - an action is always quicker than a reaction, there's an abundance of research suggesting a person can cross 20ft before a cop can meaningfully react, they've got their hands full and their training specifically emphasises a reactionary gap not bum rushing people and hoping for the best. You concede in your own anecdote that it worked only due to luck; I could give you my own of managing to knock someone down before he could cut me with the stanley knife in his hand but that doesn't mean I'd ever want to be in that position again. The dog could have been set on him, that could have been a plan. If they were expecting weapons (and the presence of firearms suggests they were) then a shield team might not have been a bad idea and there's plenty of walls to pin him against. If armed enquiries have been authorised then a baton gun might have been a reasonable contingency. Had they shot him then an inquest or the IPCC could draw one set of conclusions about why those measures were discounted while drawing completely another about the legality of the decision to open fire itself. But the fact remains that once they ended up in the circumstances they did everything you've said so far has absolutely no grounding in the law, which guarantees the police officers' Article 2 rights to life and their entitlement to act on an honestly held belief. You've even had a current AFO tell you he's shot someone under these circumstances in a hydra suite without having his ticket revoked and you still don't seem to get it - you're as out of touch here as when you opined that CS was absolutely never necessary in custody suites because in your day you could just punch people in the stomach, and that's why your opinion is getting the flak it deserves from numerous quarters. As ever, you seem unable or unwilling to back them up with anything but bluster.
  27. Tb202 The military (dependant on Regt) is very different from the Police, having been both I know this for certain. Behaviour that's acceptable in Units of the Military is simply not in civvy street, much of what goes on in Regt's would be viewed as bullying or abuse by civvies. Although you are entitled to your opinion, and rightly so, with the way in which you express yourself on the Internet I would suggest you should spend some time with actual victims of crime and see the massive impact that said crime has upon them. We are not only paid to apply force in enforcing the law but the most important job of the Police is to help people. To do this we must empathise and understand the issues our society face, above all we must communicate with the public properly or face becoming some third world law enforcement agency that just applies Force on a whim. Policing isn't all about conflict and quite honestly it soon becomes boring going home bruised grazed and bleeding if every night you are having to scrap it out in the street. Ex Service Personnel make excellent police officers and the govt really miss a trick in not recruiting more. But it's not the Military and treating it as if it where is a huge mistake
  28. Rashan Charles protestors clash with riot police

    Lets put things into perspective... The very fact you are born in Britain and live in this country places you in one of the best possible starts in life, you are already far ahead in lifestyle and wealth in comparison to BILLIONS of people across the world, you have access to state benefits, housing, access to free healthcare, free education and perhaps most importantly you are allowed a voice, you have the ability to say largely what you want, when you want, a luxury many billions of people across the world do not have. When we talk about 'frustrations' with the system can we please stop this victim mentality and just look around the world, even some developed nations (namely the US) where if you are POOR, if you are mentally ill etc you have access to no help at all, you are cast out of society and left to it. Anger exists because we have a habit of making victims out of people in the UK rather than empowering them or challenging some of their more ridiculous views. As a white working class man I am more likely to be born into: Single-parenthood (I was) Not attend University (I didn't) Remain in low-paid employment More likely to commit suicide than other race/gender (significantly so infact.) Yet as a society we do not raise these issues or tackle them, they are ignored... Am I upset that this is the case? No... Because I see myself as more than just my class, my gender and my race.. I am a person with his own ideas, motivations and set of circumstances - in short I do not let this label stigmatise who I am, I determine who I am. I think the best thing we can do is stop labelling people, stop fanning the flames of historical wrongs/injustices and get on with living with one another in peace the best we can. We need to ensure that society is respected and equally that authority and rule of law is respected (it isn't at the minute, we are seeing a breakdown in basic law and order.) You might not agree with what I have said but alot of these views on twitter are nothing but hateful and divisive... These messages are coming from the left and they need calling out on it.
  29. I'm a special working on response in the city, when I turn up for duty Saturday for either afters or nights (after working full time all week), this prevents a regular being single crewed. I attend the exact same incidents all other units do and have never backed off or been treated any differently by my section. People who want to fight or high on drugs intent on smashing their house up don't look at me and say he's a special, I won't try and assault that one. Regulars don't say you sit in the car for this one it could be a bit risky. On my second ever shift I was sent to a grade 1 with my tutor as a man was in A&E with a knife threatening staff. I've never once left a duty early, I'm always bang on time for briefing and stay till the very end. I will never pretend to do half the job you regulars do, but you should show some respect for people who admire the role you do and give up their free time to help out. I have a start date for the regs later this year and I'm so glad I put time in as a special beforehand, yes there are useless ones but you shouldn't tar us all with the same brush.
  30. Actually you are talking rubbish to be blunt. No unarmed officer should knowingly be deployed to an incident where firearms, edged weapons are being used or the person is otherwise so dangerous (suicide bombers). However often the information intelligence in these types of incidents isn't always be reliable. By their very nature they are spontaneous, chaotic and fast moving, was it 82 seconds for the Westminster bridge attack? Frontline officers part time, full time, uniformed, plain clothes or specials should be trained to the required standards to protect themselves and the public. No one, not even you with your vast experience knows where or when the next attack will take place or which officer will be first to respond.
  31. The PAVA/CS Threshold

    To be honest other peoples' subjective opinions about when to do x, y or z are not really that useful to you. Every force has its fads (remember that thread about the force where one person a week is gassed in custody? That never happens where I am) and every investigating officer who reviews a use of force will be influenced by their own experience and opinion as we all are. The facts are that you can use reasonable force not only to defend yourself or another but also in circumstances where you might in truth be the aggressor - to effect an arrest for instance where someone is simply trying to escape, or to conduct a forcible search. If the only way you can stop a prisoner from breaking free from you is to spray them and you honestly believe that what you've done was necessary then that is strong evidence that only reasonable action has been taken. It's worth having a read of S76 Criminal Justice & Immigration Act which codifies a lot of caselaw around the use of force into statute. How other people will perceive your use of force comes down mostly to how you write it down because a lot of the evidence is the belief you hold in your head, and for that purpose the NDM is helpful as it allows you to set the scene, explain what you knew at the time and your perception of the risk, explain what you were trying to achieve and the factors in your mind and what you did or didn't consider. It's not enough to simply say well he was aggressive so I gassed him; you need to go into more detail to really explain your state of mind. For instance: I was confronted by Mr X who was shouting loudly at me and kept coming within arm's reach despite me asking him to stay back. I would put his height and weight around six foot four and eighteen stone, markedly bigger than myself. He was wearing a vest top and I could see he was of muscular build; I also noticed a teardrop tattoo below his right eye which I know is regarded in many quarters as a sign of a violent past, and his left ear was cauliflowered which I have seen before in boxers and martial artists. He was waving his arms, tensing his muscles and clenching his fists, flecks of spittle were flying from his mouth as he spoke and I could smell intoxicating liquor on his breath. I formed the belief that through his state of agitation he would be difficult to reason with, that he was volatile, could potentially become violent and that if he did I would be in a position of considerable disadvantage and personal risk. I considered my tactical options and felt that given his strength and build empty hand skills were unlikely to be successful, and because he kept entering my reactionary gap the use of a baton was not practicable. I requested other officers to assist me but was aware that due to the operational tempo they would have to travel from some distance away, leaving me on my own for up to ten minutes. As I continued to speak to Mr X he suddenly shouted "I've ####ing had enough of this ####" and pulled off his vest; I believed this was a precursor to an immediate attack and so I took a step back, drew my PAVA irritant from my belt and deployed it in two short bursts from a distance of approximately four feet towards his face. Whoever reads that can put themselves exactly in your shoes, and will be able to appreciate your state of mind far better. I learned this the hard way; I used force which someone felt was contentious, my statement at the time wasn't great and lacked detail and so I was served forms. When you're investigated you have a right of reply via a duty report within ten working days, so I got some proper advice and submitted a far better report. There wasn't any case to answer and had I presented my case better on paper in the first place chances are it'd have never gone that far.
  32. BBC: UK threat level raised to highest level

    All, For many of us here, this will mean an increase in demand, an increase in tension and a strengthening of that ever-present fear of "what if it's here, what if it's us?" To you, I have the same message that I give to the public whenever an atrocity strikes our shores: Run. Hide. Tell. Stay safe. Report anything suspicious, no matter how trivial it may seem, and do not place yourself in unnecessary risk. Hold the line. Adam
  33. Salford police officer's Facebook rant investigated

    I think there is a lot to be said for officers trying to engage fully with the public and often some gentle humour and use of the general vernacular used will help but I do think this is a little too far. The tone of the post does show an empathy with the public making complaints but mainly from an officers side where they are having a moan and not actually explaining things properly . It then goes into some unnecessary attempt at humour regarding the cash machines and defecating but this was never going to be to the majority of peoples liking. The final statements about PCSO's is something he or she needs to take up with management and not moaning to the public about it. All told I'd say it was inappropriate and someone needs to have words although I'd hope it goes no further than just a bit of social media advice. Maybe there should be an NCALT for officers using social media. That'd learn em.
  34. Advice please about recruitment for regulars

    You're confusing statutory and material disclosure. Irrespective of the outcome (points or ban) you'd still have to declare the outcome - and after the 5 years. Just because you don't need a DL you are still required to provide disclosure on traffic offences during your application. The facts are that you have been prosecuted for two driving offences - to which you would be expected to uphold the law in respect of these offences whilst in your role. If you ever had to attend court to provide evidence you, too, would have a duty of disclose to the defence. Whilst it may not be overly pertinent to more substantial cases, it could shed negative light on proceedings for anything similar. *EDIT* Having just accessed the world of public records (AKA The Internet) you've neglected to mention the following: - Possession of a Loaded/Unloaded Air Weapon in a public place - Making False Representation/Cause Loss/Expose other to risk - Theft/Attempt Theft From Motor Vehicle - Assault/ABH - Shoplifting (http://www.thelawforum.co.uk/criminal-record-and-police-specials-recruitment) It would greatly assist if, when asking for help on this forum, that you furnish the whole story so as not to waste everyone's time as this undoubtedly changes things and the perspectives you seek. Good luck for the future. -Sherlock Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  35. Go ahead and be concerned on my behalf then. I do my job with integrity and professionalism, and that includes taking the breaks I am entitled to. I refuse to be bullied out of taking my refreshments in public by a vocal minority.
  36. I am now officially going in to week 12 of training school after an annual leave week with only 14 weeks left - nearly half way! It's gone ridiculously fast that I can hardly believe we're in double figures already. It's been a fair few weeks since I last posted an update here, and after a bit of prompting I've decided now is probably a good time. We've been doing a lot of legislation over the past few weeks, and had two consolidation role plays days to practice what we'd learnt. These days consist of getting fully kitted up including high vis jackets and roaming around in pairs/threes until you are deployed over the radio to an 'incident', where an assessor and several students from the local college act out a scenario. The hardest part of these, for me, has definitely been the radio stuff. It's a whole other language to me and I've never experienced anything like it before, I still even get a bit stumped over Phonetic Alphabet, the other day I was spelling out 'JONES' and 'October, November' came out of my mouth, much to the amusement of the assessor. Like I said, we've had two of these consolidation days so far and I hated every second of the first one, despite the scenarios themselves not being too much of a disaster, the worry and pressure made me soo nervous. For example, we completely forgot to search a shoplifter who we transported to (fake) custody only for the assessor to pull a massive knife out of his hoodie, schoolboy error!! But to be fair to us, we had only just covered searching so I think we were worried about how much it had been drilled into us that searches can so easily be unlawful. But, the second time around, I enjoyed every single scenario we attended as I really felt that I had grasped how to achieve the best outcome, and I especially enjoyed the ones that involved talking to people rather than going straight in with legislation, but actually really enjoyed the satisfaction of getting them right. We also spent a week visiting the stations we'll be working at and those in the same area as us as well, so for me that was my station and the station that has the custody suite, which are a fair distance apart. Although not the most exciting week ever, it was really great to get to meet some of the people I might be working with and familiarise myself with the station. We spent a day in Court which was also quite interesting, and it was a lot different to when I visited several years ago on work experience with a journalist who I'll never forget being so angry at as he laughed someone crying as his case was heard in court. One officer took us for a tour around the area I'll be covering in a marked car, which to me was really, really cool, having never been in one before. The area that we cover is so huge though, and the stories of a small number of people being on shift at the same time and the amount of time it takes to get from one end of the area to another has made me a bit nervous!! I definitely payed a bit more extra attention in PST after knowing how far away backup could be and how often I'll be single-crewed. Since I last posted, we have started and pretty much finished our Personal Safety Training (PST/OST) which was so much fun from beginning to end. I woke up the morning after each session with plenty of bruises but really enjoyed having practical lessons and being shown how to defend myself. I think for a lot of us on my course it made it all seem quite real, as we joked around pretending to stab each other with plastic knifes, that in just a few months time we'll be out there and may well have to use these techniques from the very start. I've started engaging a lot more in Police news lately, and reading posts by UK Cop Humour on Facebook, and every post that is dedicated towards a fallen officer makes me feel so much different now that I am one of them. I've gained so much respect for the job through the stories from our trainers and understanding the daily struggles that officers face, even just leaving their family for a shift and not knowing what is going to happen in the hours that follow. I think it's really hit me just how dangerous this job can be, but that the work I will be doing will be so personally rewarding that it makes it all worth it (I hope!). Files, files and more files have been thrown at us left right and centre and on Friday we had the whole day to complete a GAP (Guilty Anticipated Plea) file which was hard enough, let alone learning what needs to be included in an NGAP file. To be honest, this has confused me quite a lot, and although I really enjoyed doing the file, it was really just because we had all the information in front of us, and I can't bear to think how hard it'd be to build one of these up completely from scratch! It has, however, made me really excited for our Interviewing course which is just around the corner. We recently went on a training night out to a nearby city which was so much fun, and really bonded us as a team even more than before. It was great to let our hair down for the night and, for me, get dressed up and look like a normal human being again rather than having my hair all scraped back and barely any makeup on. Following this we've had a week off for annual leave, which has been nice, but I'm itching to get back to it tomorrow as we start on Road Traffic stuff for the next two weeks before our Driving course which comes in March. I think the highlight for these past few weeks for me was our individual review that happened at the end of last week where I really began to feel like I was actually headed towards where I'm meant to end up. My trainer said that he loved the way I spoke to people during consolidations and thought that my humour would get me far, which was so encouraging for me as all this time I've been a bit worried that this job might turn me into a robot. The knowledge that I might actually be doing OK has given me so much more motivation and confidence for the remainder of the course and I think it came at just the right time for me. Other than that, my boots still aren't shiny and my tunic still has dodgy creases, but every day that I put on my uniform and walk up to HQ I feel more and more proud of how far I've come and more and more excited for what is to come next. Thanks for reading, sorry this was a long one!
  37. Dick is the new Commissioner

    I couldn't care less frankly that a woman made commissioner. What I'm pleased about is that the majority of people have said she's approachable, operationally aware and flexible. Now THATS the good news for women in policing - a woman has made commissioner and it would appear based on merit - a key point for credibility.
  38. Blues Live Matter and Donald Trump

    I can confirm that yes, most of us are republican as it is they who typically side with law enforcement and, like@julietalpha1 said they do focus more on law and order. I look towards the new president with hopeful optimism that we will now have the support we need from the courts and congress. Certainly we've felt on the defensive the last 8 years from a man who had no problems using the word "stupid" to describe the police and cater to racist groups who made it their mission to target law enforcement. Yeah. Trumps a little out there but I certainly wasn't a fan of Hillary. It doesn't matter much now because the election is long over and if we want to have a chance at fixing things everyone needs to get on board Sent from my iPad using Police Community
  39. I would disagree there. If they think they are dealing with somebody who might be known to violently resist (for instance), pre-emptively drawing a Taser could be a sound option in the circumstances.
  40. May I just point out that the logic being put forward is flawed (re sidearm in lockboxes) under both current guidance and common sense. A sidearm, if issued, would be issued to divisional officers as a personal protection weapon. It would be a fairly low capacity low powered weapon. Officers would not be wearing full ballistic armour, helmets, be driving ballistic protected vehicles or have access to additional firearms equipment. Its raison d'etre is as a last resort to use lethal force. The training for such a weapon would be basic in nature and cover basic contact/cover drills and pointing the weapon at a target and firing it fairly accurately to neutralise an immediate threat. ****** What's being suggested is that officers could assess a call and grab their gun if it is a high risk call. If a call is high risk and involves a threat of conventional firearms, edged weapons or persons otherwise so dangerous then that becomes a de facto firearms incident and appropriately trained/equipped ARVs/SFO's would be required. Arming normal officers would not change the requirement in these circumstances.
  41. You're preaching your opinion as fact again. I'm not going to get in another argument about experience with you. You think it wouldn't be justified. I think it would be justified. Let's see what everyone else thinks. That situation might have worked out well for you but it could easily have gone wrong for you or one of your colleagues. I don't fancy taking that risk to be honest. If he's going to try and kill me with a hammer, I'd rather shoot him before he smashed my skull in. End of. I don't understand why you'd chance your life rather than guaranteeing your own safety.
  42. 8 points
    Monday 5th December - Friday 9th Decemeber Our first week as Student Police Officers is over! I can genuinely say it's been one of the most exciting weeks of my life so far. Despite feeling glad to be home to catch up on some sleep and see my family, I can't wait for Monday to come around again for week two to be honest. The week went so quickly, and there was a lot of information to take in. We went over things like the Code of Conduct and spoke to people from The Federation and had visits from important people. On Monday, we all arrived in business wear and waited around in the reception. Lots of familiar faces from different stages of the application process and everyone seemed really friendly but equally as nervous as I was. We went through formalities for the day and finally got given all of our uniform and kit. This was by far the most exciting part of the process to that date. I got back to the hotel that night and tried everything on, video chatted my family and showed them everything. They were most impressed by the bullet/stab vest. I like the divisional uniform the most (the black fleeces and wicken tops) but our uniform for training is pretty smart too, white shirts with and cravats. It feels really strange to have a real collar number and actually be part of the force now instead of just a hopeful! With all my kit on I really feel like I'm in fancy dress for Halloween! All of the trainers are really nice, and have so many brilliant stories to tell about their time on the beat. They've made sure to check we're all doing okay, especially those of us staying in the hotel for the week, and gave lots of advice on our uniform and how best to iron it. We've all done a lot of ironing this week, from our everyday shirts and trousers to the Number 1's we wore on Friday for parade inspection. Luckily there's a couple from the army on our intake so they helped us out with getting the initial shine to our boots, but I think I'm finally getting the hang of it myself. We have our Attestation next Friday, so my mum, step dad , nan and boyfriend are going to come to that and I'm super excited for it! We've also been given the date for our Pass Out, which will be in May. It seems so far away now but the group who are passing out in the next couple of weeks have reassured us that the whole process of training goes so fast, and after this week I really believe them. Each of us in our intake has at least one other person who is going to be based at the same station after training, there's only two of us for the station I'm going to but one other from the previous group too, so it'll be nice to know someone else has just been the newbie at the station before us. We've been issued our radios and mobile devices (the upgraded version of a PNB) and been over how to use them, and have been told we'll be doing first aid next week as well as having our first fitness test, so I'm expecting next week to go just as quickly, especially with the Attestation on Friday. So far we've all really bonded as a group, there's some really funny characters and everyone is so enthusiastic about the job which is great to be surrounded by. I'm the youngest, as I expected, and by at least three years as well! I definitely feel like the baby of the group but so far it hasn't seemed to have made much difference. There's quite a few who have been Special's, in both DPP and other forces, so it's useful to be able to ask them questions, but it's also quite daunting being one of the few who has absolutely no policing background or even family members in the job. I've got a lot to learn! I’ve learnt my cautions, so you do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not believe me when I say I learnt this by watching far too much Traffic Cops and the likes! The food is really good, which is dangerous, I can tell that over these 6 or so months there may have to be a few trips to Stores to request bigger trousers! Our group has bonded really well, and I can tell I’ve made some friends that will remain with me for a long time already, which is great to know since we will be spending such a long time together. So all in all, it's been a hectic but amazing week, and I'm so looking forward to what's to come. Thanks for all the positive comments on my last post, I know this one isn't quite as interesting as it only covers a week but I thought I'd update before the work piles on, as I doubt I'll have time to do an update every week. Here's to the next 6 months and what sounds like an incredibly rewarding career ahead! (P.S, Sorry, I'm a serial exclamation mark abuser and an atrocious speller)
  43. Cruel? Distressing? No place in a civilised society? I might suggest those who don't like their use is at an arrest when they have a spitting suspect hockling up everything they can from the back of their throat, as well as daring to suggest that if the uncivilised person wasn't spitting, there'd be no need for the hood.
  44. I can't BEAR women who play the sexism card when it's NOTHING to do with gender. I have said it time and time again - it's hard enough being a woman in policing without women like her making it worse. Excuse after excuse. Just get on with it or get out. Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  45. Time for an NHS Police ?
  46. Westminster terror attack (22/03/2017)

    Sorry if you misinterpreted my post and I won't be making an argument of it. This thread was begun as an incident which sadly unfolded into a terrorist attack, and as such there will be many facets to it, most importantly to many of this community, the tragic loss of a member of the policing family. I have made my respect and sadness very clear. To add that I find it increasingly difficult to justify a personal view I have held for many years is not intended to be disrespectful in anyway, nor would I ever be.
  47. 7 points
    As week four draws to a close I thought I'd give you another update of our training so far. Sorry for the delay between this post and the last, it's been a busy time and to be honest I wasn't sure if anyone was still interested in reading! In my last post I mentioned our Attestation, so I suppose that is a good place to start for this post. It took place on Friday 16th December and we were told we could invite family members and partners to the ceremony and that it would be a great chance for them to get a glimpse into what it was we'd been doing while we were away from home. I decided to invite my mum, stepdad, nan and partner, and none of them had any idea what to expect as nobody in my family has any Police background, so I think it was a bit of a shock to them to be honest. We walked in (yes walked, we hadn't been taught to march yet!) and took our seats in front of the crowd of family and staff as well as those who we would be attesting to, all dressed up in our tunics that we'd spent all morning de-fluffing and waited nervously for our turn to stand up and read out the attestation. For anyone who, like me, didn't have a clue what attesting meant, it's basically swearing your life away. You promise to do your duty and serve the Queen in what seems like the longest and most tongue-twisting speech ever and then are issued with your Warrant Card, certificate and therefore your powers as a Police Officer. Our Sergeant made a really great speech which I think resonated with my mum especially, as she said it made her realise that not only am I now a Police Officer, but that my family is now the family of a Police Officer, and that we are all part of something that has all these rules and expectations that make us much more responsible for the things we do and say than a regular citizen. It was even quite an emotional affair, I know I wasn't the only one who felt a bit overwhelmed by the whole ceremony, in a good way, as it all of a sudden felt very real - we knew what our job was and what we had a duty to do, and that this was now our lives. Plus, the warrant cards are pretty cool. Since the Attestation it's been a whirlwind of legislation, definitions, role plays and knowledge checks. We did our First Aid training and scene management as well as talking through PACE, which I now understand is basically a Police Officer's bible. We've done Evidence and different types of witnesses, covered Diversity and how to take a statement and even written a statement ourselves, which was a pretty funny story. We were in class one morning waiting for the trainers to start, when someone we've had contact with through HR all through the application process walked into the room and shouted at one of our trainers and slapped him across the face, really, really hard. We all sat there in shock thinking oh my god what is going on, and our trainers chased her out the room. They let us sit there staring with our mouths open at the door for a few minutes before all returning to tell us it was just an exercise and that now we were to write up a PNB entry and statement on the assault we had just witnessed! If that's not a hands-on way of getting us to write a pretty decent statement then I'm not sure what is! Just before Christmas we had an input from OST, which is Officer Safety Training and basically all the physical stuff. It was only classroom based so I'm really looking forward to getting into the gym for that side of things. Christmas was a nice break from it all but it felt weird to be back home for such a long amount of time! I've also already noticed changes in my home and personal life, I live in a small town so it's no secret that I've changed my job and now wear a uniform and all over Christmas I was asked hundreds of questions, mostly from family and friends but even from a few people I've only spoken to once or twice in my whole life. I suppose it's exciting but it's also made me a feel a little bit vulnerable, I think it'll be a process to get used to it all, because as one of our trainers said, you become kind of a 'celebrity' in your town, you're doing something that not everyone does, it's exciting and interesting and people want to know in the ins and outs... and if you have a taser, have you ever been tasered, have you tasered anyone yet, have you been sprayed in the eye, can you arrest me, are you going to arrest me... People think you're suddenly a Super Hero, they think you know all the legislation that ever existed and that, despite having only been training for 3 weeks, they think you can solve everything and know the answer to everything! I've come back feeling a bit out of the loop and it took a while on Wednesday morning to get back into 'Police Officer mode' to be honest! Since Christmas it's been pretty strong on definitions, we had a definition check this morning on Theft, Criminal Damage, Going Equipped and Burglary, I think it went alright but I did struggle with Burglary. There's so many 'policey' words that I've never used before in my life that are now going to become part of my everyday vocabulary, it's a strange prospect! It's also been really interesting doing role plays, for example today we did Summons and yesterday we did How to Arrest, so giving reasons and necessity and presenting to a Custody Sergeant. The first couple of times getting up and acting in front of everyone made you feel a little bit stupid, especially as I seem to be getting picked on an awful lot to do it, but I think I've got used to it now, and everyone is so supportive even when you get it a bit wrong which is really encouraging. We've been given our time table for the next couple of weeks and we've got a few more intense ones to know by then, but also two OST lessons next week to look forward to. At the end of January we have a week at our divisional statements for Geographical Awareness, which we think is basically a tour around the station and how things work, it'll be nice to have a week living at home but I don't think we'll be allowed out with the officers, I don't even think we're there in uniform, which I'm disappointed about but I suppose our time will come soon enough! I turn 20 two weeks from today (19th January if you wanted to know when to buy my pressies for) so I'm really looking forward to no longer being the 'teenager' of the group, however I don't doubt that I will always be considered the baby, being so much younger than everyone else! We're looking at Sudden Deaths on my Birthday - how cheerful... Overall it's been a pretty hectic few weeks but I'm glad to be getting properly stuck into it now and already the weeks are flying by before our eyes. Hope you all had a lovely Christmas and New Year, here's to an exciting 2017!
  48. BTP Student Officer Recruitment 2017

    Lads, I will see you on March 13th.
  49. The problem with many martial arts 'experts' is they have never had to control a person in circumstances that didn't have rules or whilst wearing 15lbs+ of restrictive bulky equipment. It's very different in a dry well lit dojo where people can tap out and it not get out of hand, until you've had to put on a uniform and all the considerations of doing so then to be fair any criticism is less founded in my opinion. I'll be facing someone who wants to hurt me (or kill), my colleagues or members of the public, and may not be in a comprehensible state of mind or with a drug/alcohol induced sense of strength and power. There's no "let's try this again from the top", it's there and then. I can't see how he says he lost his rag. If your being bitten then too right I'm going to keep hitting and hit hard until it stops and use whatever adrenaline I can muster to do so. Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk
  50. Special Vetting

    I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but someone needs to be honest with you. Are you really a suitable candidate? How could you ever tell someone off for alcohol related stupidity when you have 3 drink related convictions? To be honest I wouldn't want you as a colleague due to the unforgivable lack of integrity you've shown in the past. I think you'd be better off looking at a community outreach type of project instead.

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