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Showing most liked content since 15/10/17 in all areas

  1. It’s good community engagement as far as I’m concerned. Damned if you show a human side, damned if you don’t. Haters gonna hate no matter what we do, but a lot of the comments in that vile red top paper were positive.
  2. On social media the term 'murdered' has become the universal phrase which I fear is a tad fanciful given the circumstances. There seems to be an incomprehensible tone that the police were not entitled to attempt to pull over this young chap or to go after him. This has not been addressed firmly by any public authority figure which is a mistake in my view. Whether the incident was or was not a pursuit is clearly in this case subjective - the officers did not consider it a pursuit, the misconduct hearing accepted it was not a pursuit but a lay jury believed it was a pursuit (which is understandable as a member of public hearing that officers were trying to catch up with the moped would in plain English consider them to be pursuing him). Don't forget, juries are pretty free to make any decision they want in some circumstances - ie Mark Duggan. They somehow believed that he had a gun but didn't have it on him when contacted by the armed officers. They made that ruling on their own judgement with no reliable corroborative evidence - the only real eyewitness was over a hundred metres away in an elevated position in a flat but claimed he could 'clearly' see that Duggan didn't have a gun................. We also have to be careful to not allow the ends to justify the means - the funding of drugs and mobiles tells us WHY this chap MAY have driven erratically IF he saw police and IF he then decided to fail to stop. However as this particular information was not known specifically to the officers at the time it's irrelevant. What we know is that HICKS was on a moped which officers REASONABLY believed was not legal. It was a 50cc moped with an illegal 300cc engine thereby handling very differently and at far higher speeds than what it presented as. The officers had reasonable suspicions which warranted them to investigate further. The officers reasonably went to locate HICKS to further investigate. The officers state that they were struggling to keep up with HICKS which appears to be corroborated by the CCTV. At some stages there were 10 seconds between the vehicles. If you sit still and imagine a moped passing you at 50mph. Then sit and count to 10. At this point imagine a police car passing you. There would be a substantial distance between the two vehicles. I would say that 10 seconds gap is longer than even many police pursuits where the pursuing car is 'backing off' due to helicopter keeping obs etc. Fat packet maths for me shows 50mph as about 20m per second. Unless my maths is totally off that would suggest that if both vehicles were travelling at the same speed they would be 200 metres apart if there was a 10 second gap - or nearly 2 full length football pitches. However, there is a chance that HICKS saw the blue lights, or heard sirens, and whilst perhaps not in a textbook pursuit decided that he did not want to be anywhere near an approaching police car which may or may not have been pursuing him. So let us for one second leave an open narrative on whether HICKS and the officers believed there to be a fail to stop. Let us now look at the circumstances. As mentioned by various parties in the coroner's investigation...this did not have the hallmarks of a high risk moped pursuit. HICKS was not riding on pavements. HICKS was not riding down alleyways or bollarded streets unnegotiable by police cars. HICKS did not discard his helmet. HICKS did not discard evidence. The police cars were not in very close proximity, not so much as to be putting undue pressure on the moped. There is absolutely no suggestion at any time of any chance of contact between police cars and the moped. The speed involved was the only high risk factor involved as it has been stated that at points HICKS travelled at nearly 3 times a 20mph limit. I simply cannot see that the actions taken by police were unreasonable. They may, or may not depending on whose subjective view you side with, have breached the pursuit policy in so far as seeking authorisation. However, objectively I cannot see that their actions in themselves were unreasonable. A young lad has died in unfortunate but avoidable circumstances. I can't help but feel that there is no circumstances where the interested parties will accept any outcome other than the police accepting blame. Which is perhaps understandable in their position but is incredulous for me that the wider public seem not to 'get It'.
  3. I was there, you weren’t. This was straight after briefing when the fair opened before anyone was around - even if it wasn’t, so what? The fair is one of the oldest in the UK being an annual event for over 700 years starting in 1278. Historically it has been marred by violence and disorder hence the large (for our force at least) Police presence with officers being seriously assaulted in the past but over the past 10 years or so we’ve made great reductions in incidents there and the local authority has started to provide security to allow us to reduce numbers there which is largely down to the relaxed, approachable presence of the cops who work it every year such as myself! Anyone who says doing what we did brings the force into disrepute is quite simply deluded.
  4. The legislation to carry this kind of enforcement out and establish such bodies already exists but remains largely unknown/forgotten about. From my own personal experience PCSO's who were brought in to tackle this kind of legislation were made largely redundant thanks to political interference which curbed the role into nothing more than public relations/intelligence gathering - PCSO's were artificially held back by the powers that be and disallowed largely across the board of enforcing even the basic of offences which caused the public to lose what little faith they had in the role - coming from a force that does utilise it's PCSO's to a useful degree and does back them it's mind blowing that money is being wasted on a position where even if an officer encounters a low level public order offence they are powerless to act unless calling on a PC to step in and take over. Council Wardens I find are the opposite end of the spectrum, they often have 'powers' given to them to enforce nuisance/disorder matters but the entire concept relies on the person being ticketed or reported to provide their name and address details - as soon as someone turns around and says "I'm not giving you them" or becomes aggressive/threatening the entire concept falls down on its head and the wardens themselves know that this is the case... The result being targeting of people who would be seen to be 'easy targets' rather than the yobs of society who know the system to get away with it... Mrs Miggins who drops her cigarette butt outside the train station, retired life long worker who respects society and it's institutions will hand over her details for littering - Billy 'Scumbag' Smith with a history of violence, robbery and burglary offences will not and more often than not simply resort to what he has always resorted to when confronted with his misbehaviour, will turn abusive and threatening. The result being a society where those who pay their taxes, respect other people etc become the targets of the system because they are compliant. We need to have a redress of balance within society so that the public can see that the system works for them not against them and actively prosecutes the people who do take the mick. A mindset we also need to move away from is the idea that the 'Police' are the be all and end all of criminal enforcement - this has literally crippled the service where we've become the 'go to' organisation for every minor incident - the system cannot cope and cops have far more important things to be getting on with.
  5. Because it was blatantly obvious to anyone with any common sense that the only person responsible for his death was himself, and in a desperate bid to persecute someone for something in order to pacify the baying mob, the officers were accused of breaching policy by not requesting permission to pursue, thus breaching policy. They were not being investigated for causing his death, just for breaching pursuit policy. As the panel found there was no pursuit, they cannot have breached policy, and therefore are not guilty of misconduct. Much as his family, his 'mates', and all the c-list celebs who got in on the coat tails of the social media hate campaign will protest, this was the right decision.
  6. Frankly what difference does it make whether they were or not? If any motorist (and I include rider in that) declines to stop when legally ordered to do so, then there can only be one person to blame - and guess what, it's the motorist.
  7. Without sounding like a broken record from reading the last few posts I think it is clear that there is a desperate need for a full review and reform of policing in the UK. Especially with the smaller forces it is reaching a point where there is no effectiveness. Officers chase their tails around trying to balance plates. Nothing is ever really achieved. We need a discussion about what the priorities are, who is best placed to do what, dare I say it but looking at funding and using it smartly not just pumping it in to gimmicks. Yes, I accept that more money in the short term would be needed to restructure things, be that for some sort of lower tier local authority constables. This problem isn’t just going to go away, I think we are approaching a cliff edge.
  8. I remember reading about this story a while ago. Of course it’s sad for the family of Henry but I still think it is frankly unacceptable that it has taken nearly 3 years to reach this point. Have to feel for the officers and their families as the stress must have been horrendous. Hopefully everyone can now move on.
  9. I think something needs to change. There needs to be a grown up discussion about what is going to best for Policing. We seem to just be sleepwalking in to oblivion at the moment. I think the time is coming to seriously discuss regional mergers and then look at what options are available for local policing issues. The biggest insult is for years the government have been saying ‘police reform is working’. There hasn’t really been any reform other than drastically cutting resources, usually from core of policing and more to do by dumping other agencies’ work on the police under the banner of safeguarding and wondering why things are the way they are.
  10. I find myself more and more starting most conversations with victims with "This might sound odd but what do you actually want from calling the police today?" Many officers jump in with either 'sorry no loe we are going to file it' or 'I need a statement and we will go and Nick so and So'. The majority of the diary calls I attend I don't end up arresting anyone. Signposting, safeguarding and words of advice. To be honest start to finish it sometimes takes longer and more effort to not just go and Nick someone. But if I think its the best way to play it I will.
  11. New job, new boots...

    Have a read of the Tackleberry section of the forum. Fill your boots.... (Sorry) [emoji23]
  12. I know the party line but is there any reason that people believe a low level non injury common assault being DV automatically means it should be dealt with? I've filed a number of DV common assaults without arresting an offender. Most recently I crimed 3 DV assaults between a mother and two daughters and the decision was to leave them in the same house when we left. Admittedly that's very rare and the only time in 9 years of policing I have ever taken that particular action but we should be judging every case on its merits in my opinion. I've arrested the proverbial mars bar thief and I've filed a technical burglary. I've managed to get a charge for resist arrest where all other charges were dropped and I've personally pressed for an assault police on me to be dropped. I feel like these days people police 'by numbers' rather than professional judgement. A blanket screening out policy is as rubbish for the public as blanket zero tolerance.
  13. I have a 'defence' to the idiot comments about wasting time, however we all like to try and have s bit of fun when at work. This didn't harm anyone, it blew some steam off, and likely any officers on duty that weren't NHPT were SCs (if it is anything like my force at least). Props to the CH/SUPT for joining in with it. He'll get some more loyalty from junior ranks for not being a king on a hill and getting involved with his officers.
  14. My force, happens every year on the final day of the fair just after briefing. Last year we hit the big wheel in force but never made the front pages. We are so used to this anti-Police drivel that the Chief Inspector even paid for the ride so nobody could whinge about that side of it. Thankfully the good people of Hull are fully behind us and this toilet article is being treat with the contempt it deserves!
  15. Correctly?!? Why does this mindset persist within HO forces? The problem with the Home Office way of thinking is that its often a 'one size fits all' model of policing with little or no specialism in place to deal with prolific problems in a particular area - by your logic I guess the money towards litter enforcement/flytipping should instead be spent on the HO forces to deal with? Local Authority Police for want of a better word works the world over, dealing with low level problems that the national forces are too busy to deal with - low level crime wasnt a priority when I was a kid growing up in the 90s - I never saw a beat officer because the mindset of policing moved away from being community focused towards a more national model... BTP itself is proof of specialisation working within policing - we deal with the things our community want us to be dealing with, we are probably one of the last forces that dedicate alot of our time to foot patrol/beats because we can afford to do so and its what is expected of us. This idea that its 'the HO or nothing' needs to change. I firmly believe one of the biggest problems to affect policing came from the removal of council operated constabularies to central government managed county forces... There needs to be that connection.
  16. I say shift responsibility for atleast some of the investigation back onto organisations and companies involved - especially public authorities who have this habit of sliding everything onto the police. The security industry goes on and on about providing a 'professional' service yet deliver the bare minimum that often isn't up to muster by anyones standards. Train security officers to submit and take statements from themselves and the companies staff on an MG11 for low level offences such as shoplifting. Encourage companies to privately prosecute or deal with things via debt recovery. Have authorities such as the NHS employ people capable of investigating crimes committed against their staff and incentivise their security to deal with problem people robustly using their powers already available to them under common law and statute legislation - we need to move away from this silly Americsnisation of various industries, the number of security officers who have been 'rebranded' as 'customer service operatives' or 'ambassadors' is a joke - get people in who are there to protect the public. Re-train police and our supervisors as to just what powers the public and security personel have and encourage the use of any person powers within these organisations in a reasonable, measured way - move away from the mind set that police monopolise the use of force or even the power to prosecute - local authorities have a LEGAL responsibility to tackle crime and anti-social behaviour - they have the ability to swear in Constables for low level enforcement with a power of arrest yet very few authorities are willing to do this. In order to fix the problems that frankly plague our society it is going to take a joint effort from not just the police but everyone including private industry, local/public authorities.
  17. I wouldn’t take mental health issues as nonsense.
  18. If you remove the defence of reasonable chastisement for common assault then presumably it would be an offence to physically pick up a toddler that is lying on the floor having a tantrum or to have any other coercive physical contact with a child. Absurd much?
  19. Henry Hicks: Met officers cleared over moped crash death

    Justice to most people is getting what they want, whether it is right or wrong to them is immaterial
  20. LAs have extensive prosecution experience for parking, ASB orders, non-payment, environmental health - in fact they are second only to CPS so prosecuting offenders for offences identified by their officers would be second nature, plus there is no reason why their files couldn't be taken by the CPS.
  21. It's been a long time coming in the Home Office forces - I cannot understand the value alot of PCSO's actually bring to County Forces bar perhaps intelligence gatherers and front face of liaison with the police and the communities - they are almost under utilised across the board. As much as friendly face is nice to have a toothless tiger without the powers or ability to do much of anything bar call on a warranted officer when needed isn't much of a reassurance or deterrent to anyone, this is where the Home Office forces have failed to deliver with PCSO's.... In my opinion a massive waste of public funds that if the public knew how ill equipped and ineffective many of these officers were to tackle even the smallest of offences they would be shocked.
  22. I wonder if the super complaint is going to mention the crippling staff and budget cuts or if they will just focus on the police failure to meet the publics desire and right for proper policing. Much as there are issues within policing, they are deeply connected with the rest of society and government. The criminal justice system and prisons and NHS and mental health services are all a complete mess. But there is so much misdirection and spin and nonsense that the people are denied any reality. Just the result. At the moment people are complaining that the police car isn't going fast enough or to the right places, while it's wheels have all been removed and sold for scrap.
  23. Only because the gutter press dross that is the Sun has blown a non-story out of proportion when in reality it was probably a good piece of community policing.
  24. You have to take care of your own well being to ensure you can take care of others. If a quick go on a fairground ride relieves a bit of stress and means the officers are more likely to continue in their jobs rather than change career, it's okay with me.
  25. Two tiered policing can be seen across the world, not just the US... Canada, France, Germany and numerous others. LA would swear in their own police because they can directly address issues which the police do not see as a priority, such as street drinking, begging, other low level issues - I do not believe Burglary, theft or assault are minor. So what if BTP were a private police force? Can you with a straight face tell me that the home office would respond and investigate offences such as rail obstruction, luggage theft or indeed a byelaw offence? How about a non-compliant travel fraud incident? Private Constables still exist, Port of Dover are a resource keeping a key entry point to the UK safe that costs the UK Government nothing at all - a public service being delivered by a private corporation free of charge. No, yet because BTP is specialised to that environment, has it's remit it dedicates its time to railway policing - the home office has its role of one size fits all policing which frankly rarely works well.
  26. Rename Fireman Sam - Political Correctness Gone Mad

    We had this in the police 25 years ago when the W of WPC was dropped. To be honest on this issue I was totally for it, but arriving at the decision from the viewpoint of we were all PCs. But changing the name of a children's character who was created in a time when there were no woman firefighters and the job title was fireman is political correctness gone mad. There is also something about acknowledging our culture and identity from that time, not denying it. Fine if Sam was created today he would be called Firefighter Sam, but he wasn't. Who asks even today if the post person been. No one, we say the post or postman been. Is the head of Royal Mail demanding a change for Postman Pat to become Post Person Pat, No. Clearly the head of LFB has too much time on her hands.
  27. You will never get far in the Police with common sense ideas like that.
  28. A bloke could turn up and say "I identify as female" and watch the Diversity wonks go into meltdown. What about someone with a mixed race background, would they be turned away if they weren't 'BME-enough'? Here's a novel idea - select and recruit based on some standard characteristic, let's say....ability!
  29. I think there is a problem when some people just do not understand English as it is written. The notes on the BTP website were quite simple in there meaning. Of course they could attend the seminar and not be admitted because they do not meet the criteria.
  30. Let’s put this in perspective, definition of discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex. Apparently there is nothing racist about black or female only spaces, which sounds remarkably like self imposed segregation: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/30/white-people-black-women-feminist-festival White people cant be the victim of ‘reverse racism’ which sounds just like bog standard racism to me: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/1901544/google-promotes-controversial-claim-its-not-possible-for-ethnic-minorities-to-be-racist-against-white-people/amp/ In short, because I’m a white maIe, I magically can’t be discriminated against, and the merest suggestion of such is ludicrous. Sounds more like I’m the victim of our country’s good nature exploited. Quite frankly I’m sick of the nonsensical and discriminatory manner in which I am viewed because of my ethnic origin. The unjustified presumption I must be racist is outrageous and simply doesn’t happen in other parts of the world against the countries indigenous population. The manner in which racism is discussed is unhelpful and one sided, I am honestly disappointed with the people of this country for not injecting some common sense into the debate. Lets have an honest and meaningful debate, without being over sensitive. We must accept racism isn’t one sided to really address the topic.
  31. Then i’ve imparted an important first lesson in surviving your probation; banter.
  32. She made a decision to make a false report of rape. There was not enough evidence to support a prosecution. It seems there was sufficient evidence for the CPS to pursue a case for perverting the course of justice. She realised she'd made a bad call and couldn't face the consequences. I don't mean to sound harsh but I feel bad for the real victim here... The man against whom the false allegation was made. Good on him for seeking the truth and some justice for himself. Yes, the fact that she took her own life is tragic, but if we stop prosecuting people breaking the law (especially in life-affecting cases like this) because we fear they'll take their own life then what hope is there? We'd be doing nobody justice.
  33. Another successful MetProject then. There’s a common theme here.
  34. No Police Officer forced him to be in possession of illegal drugs or a number of mobile phones. No body made him refuse to stop, and no one made him ride as he did. He was engaged in an unlawful act and was evading prosecution and there could only be one person to blame for his death and that is himself.
  35. What really annoys ,e, in this case and others, is whenever the family/supporters don't get the answer they want (a scapegoated officer that is sacked/imprisoned) then they claim they have no "justice" or there is no "accounatability". If a matter has been thoroughly investigated andoyt through several judicial and quasi-judicial processes then, providing there is no evidence of procedural failure, then the officers have accounted for themselves and the friends/relatives etc "have justice".
  36. The full report is here. I haven't finished reading it yet, but the press release page contains some bizarre remarks: From that I take that the police shouldn't search kids in case it upsets other kids, they shouldn't make active criminals feel targetted simply because they're kids, and if some people make allegations then the IPCC will abandon any effort at impartiality and decide to believe them even without any evidence to suggest they are true. Edit: I thought I recognised her name; Commissioner Jennifer Izekor, of the IPCC, has been accused of perverting the course of justice.
  37. New job, new boots...

    8 weeks is usually for the custom fit boots. You should be able to get them easy enough
  38. New job, new boots...

    Literally millions of threads on this already. Peacekeeper P1's if you really can't find any of the other threads. Which force are you starting with?
  39. I think local government/town halls etc are a more natural 'fit' to be in control of local community policing matters than a Home Office led force. Councils know the problems afflicting their communities and are more invested to deploy required resources to them - from my direct experience there is a massive gap between a county forces policing priorities and that afflicting local areas which are often overlooked. Funding may well be an issue but I we already pay some of the highest taxes in the world yet we don't see all too much for it.
  40. New job, new boots...

    Congratulations on the posting, which force is it if you don't mind me asking? Hands down Altbergs, they are the gold standard of Police boots and you will be told this by everyone. They are ridiculously comfy and well built. The standard is P1 Peacekeeper Plus if you go to them and tell them you are an officer you get a sizeable discount. You should check them out.. http://www.altberg.co.uk/category/police-boots/
  41. Body Clock Alarm

    Yeah, I've had one for a few years. I think it helps. Much nicer to wake up to a gradual light rather than something beeping loudly at you. I'd recommend Lumie. There was another one I tried, I forget the name, but it was rubbish.
  42. Overweight policewoman known as 'Blue Moon' because she was in work so rarely who quit after repeatedly failing fitness 'bleep test' loses discrimination case Full Story - Daily Mail
  43. Every action has a consequence. There is no reason why any person cannot be held responsible for his/her actions. Many rape victims have been destroyed by another's actions, but you have to remember that many Innocent people have been accused of the crime and their name broadcast for all to see. It is never rape if you have second thoughts the day after and realised what a fool you have been. It is too easy to blame someone else.
  44. Here is some more news for the Sun , Police officers pee , they poo ,they burp and f@rt , they have good days and bad, they eat ,drink some even smoke. Yes Sun believe it or not they are human beings
  45. I get that people are saying that this is lawful and most likely has gone through legal advice etc etc. However I think it is MORALLY wrong. I say this because in 2017 no one should have any sort of preferential treatment or any sort of advantage, no matter how small, just because of ethnicity or gender or anything else for that matter. I go on quite a bit about this but I am very headstrong when it comes to equality. I feel that in this day and age we should have true equality ie it is a level playing field for everyone regardless of where you are born, where you grew up, what the colour of your skin is, sexuality, gender or whatever. Personally I feel things like this simply create more division in our society. I think that the recruitment process is the recruitment process. If you can pass then great, if people don’t pass then that’s unfortunate however it means that the people that passed were generally deemed fit to do the job regardless of anything else. Also playing devils advocate here, is it not insulting to people from these backgrounds/communities to suggest that they need some sort of extra assistance and coaching?
  46. If other forces are holding recruitment events only open to certain sexes and ethnicities, then yes, they are discriminatory. The article says: "At the workshops, aspiring recruits receive help with application forms and mock tests, are given coaching, and have the chance to meet serving officers." That would suggest that people at these workshops are receiving some kind of help with their application, and 'mock tests' would seem to suggest that they've received some indication of what to expect in their assessment centres. That's not coaching throughout the whole recruitment process, but on the information we have, it would appear that there is some advantage to attending, over people who don't. I can't speak for everyone, and I've only had a cursory read through most of this thread, but I haven't noticed anything outrageous. I have seen plenty of people arguing that the practice is discriminatory, but on the information we have it would appear to be true. Making comments like you have, in an attempt to scare off people from defending their opinions, isn't helpful.
  47. I have to say that I don't have a huge issue with this. Has anyone looked into whether BTP offer similar workshops that are open to everyone? When I applied to join (not BTP) my force held recruitment seminars in areas of high BME population open for everyone to attend. I can't help thinking the person who is crying "discrimination" is not the kind of person BTP or any other force want. They are trying to encourage BME applicants, not discriminate. The only issue I have with positive discrimination (generally) that it creates artificial diversity and stifles talent. Zulu - your comments are frankly ridiculous and not helpful or contributory.
  48. Call me an ambulance.

    Our force policy is not to transport unless it's a serious and imminent risk to life to leave them, or they're DPs. Even then they'd rather the DPs went in an ambulance. In practical terms this is rigidly enforced by the duty inspector, who then wonders why he has no resources.
  49. PC UNIFORM/EQUIPMENT

    Maybe a decent bag/torch if not issued.

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