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  2. Availability of offensive weapons

    If you go to the very first post it never was about licensing of weapons but about the "Availability of Offensive Weapons. The fact that the Police are not protecting people properly from violence is no justification for wanting to change the law to allow possession of Offensive Weapons. Seeing as we cannot even contain firearms possession correctly.
  3. Military support for emergency services

    I didn't know about the other services, never been Navy or RAF round here in any numbers (and since HNS Nightjar closed I don't think there are any), so wasn't aware. It does make sense to get some return on the investment, and more importantly it gives them extra experience. It’s all about keeping up professional development and the NHS get free staff. Usually find medical staff in certain major city hospitals. Sometime totally indistinguishable from civillian staff.
  4. Availability of offensive weapons

    You seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of what people have been saying on the matter. Yes - offensive weapons are currently prohibited in law under most circumstances. However, all discussions on the licensing of weapons for self defence, would be discussing the possibility of changing the law. We are discussing not what the law is, but perhaps what we think it should be. Saying you know cops who have gone years without using CS etc means nothing; we have other options. I've never used my CS, because it has significant drawbacks, and is substantially less effective than my taser; but I've been in a couple of situations outside of work where, if I had CS with me, I would've considered using it. That's not because I court danger, but because I have to travel through some absolute holes on my way to work. That's not to say I'm 100% sold on this idea, but as I said, it's worth talking about, because as the Police, we're simply not doing our job properly protecting people from violence.
  5. Today
  6. Vetting

    I have never known of any vetting guidance that states that a due care conviction is a certain bar to appointment. I think you might have been fed some rubbish from whoever you spoke to in recruiting in the first place, especially since policy appeared to suddenly change when you informed them you were an SC. Though do remember that vetting is still subjective and discretionary even though there is guidance.
  7. Availability of offensive weapons

    The topic is not about firearms but availability of offensive weapons. A firearms can be used for sporting purposes, or killing vermin legally. Wannabe Sprays cannot be used for sport so if as you suggest they licenced, what for. They are not legal for general possession and only have one purpose, to incapacitate. I have known officers who have them and have not used them for years and they will find themselves in a dangerous situation much more than an MOP. An MOP would have to, literally wait for years, on the off chance that something happens. Of course if you wanted to court danger them just walk around Brixton, in London, or Moss Side in Manchester at 3am with a mobile phone in your hand and you could guarantee criminal attention.
  8. Availability of offensive weapons

    I've read through this twice, and I still can't find anything that actually responds to my post, which you quoted. In which case, there definitely should be standardisation. Giving out a shotgun certificate to someone without them being able to provide information of either training or pre-existing experience seems incredibly negligent.
  9. Thank You

    Hi all I am over the moon to finally be able to say after two years that I received my final offer today to start PC training in four weeks with Cleveland Police. I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone on this site who has contributed content and answered my queries. Hand on heart I don't think I would have passsed everything without the tips and advice on this forum from serving police officers and fellow candidates. I have always found everyone very polite and professional and always willing to offer their insights into the recruitment process and life in the police service. Thank you all again and the very best of luck to everyone in their careers.
  10. Probationers will be allowed to use taser

    It's a money issue. It doesn't really matter what the College Of Policing says. Forces like Hampshire who have given a positive opt in for taser carry may find some benefit in this decision. Most other forces taser issue is limited by funding...there's no cash to give extra taser for officers with 20 years let alone the newbies. I'm not against the idea, but it's almost to me a premature decision...It's a question that needed asking when forces get to the stage of issuing one to all officers.
  11. Availability of offensive weapons

    If head that route it would only be something like a 2nd hand .357 Rossi Lever. Though i'll have to invest in some cowboy boots and a stetson as well, those can be expensive
  12. So the MPS has their cake and eats it. They fail to respect the outcome of the hearing and still publicly besmirch their officer. I'm disgusted, yet not surprised. Most forces have an attitude problem, the Mets is merely amplified by it's size. The DPS has a dogged history of sending officers to the gallows in shaky circumstances. If there was a theft, and it was so clear cut as to warrant gross misconduct, where was the charge for theft? Where was the charge for perverting the course of justice? And as to 'there must be more to this'...no there mustn't. That is almost saying that if this officer was a bit of a tool it's okay to fit him up! Thats like saying that a criminal who we can't get for his substantive offence is fair game for a dodgy seatbelt ticket or some other impropriety! No, the more detail that is released the worse this stinks. I'm sorry, my mind is made up. Having been on the end of several trumped up attempts to throw me under the bus I know that it happens and I know that it doesn't matter how good or bad you are performance wise...misconduct proceedings are not a venue for settling scores. UPP is there to deal with the idiots in the job. If he's bad at his job, use the appropriate mechanism to get him out. If not, treat him with fairness and how you might like to be treated yourself. **** Zulu well have to agree to disagree...I don't consider this type of incident to show inherent dishonesty and based on this incident alone I'd still happily leave my wallet next to this PC until he gives me reason not to. Good luck to him and I hope he doesn't fall victim to a damaged MPS ego.
  13. Availability of offensive weapons

    It isn't that bad, not like I'll be applying for anything silly expensive. Bolt Action .22LR is all I really want. Rounds aren't even expensive there either. That's fine. Until you Start eyeing up centre fire and accompanying glass...
  14. I didn't know about the other services, never been Navy or RAF round here in any numbers (and since HNS Nightjar closed I don't think there are any), so wasn't aware. It does make sense to get some return on the investment, and more importantly it gives them extra experience.
  15. Availability of offensive weapons

    It isn't that bad, not like I'll be applying for anything silly expensive. Bolt Action .22LR is all I really want. Rounds aren't even expensive there either.
  16. EOD... Specialist Search Teams Maritime assistance Surveillance assistance The list is huge.
  17. Availability of offensive weapons

    With respect, that misses the point I was trying to make - that its possible to licence lethal firearms, in the interests of a hobby (again - nothing against people who are into that sort of thing), yet not a canister of irritant spray for personal safety. That to me raises and eyebrow. I apologise if I caused you any offence as that wasn't the intention at all. I do think though, that the general attitude of 'why should people be allowed items for self defence' is wrong, and the question - especially given our astonishingly high levels of violent street crime - should be more why shouldn't people be allowed. If violent crime (especially knife crime) wasn't so high, I'd view it differently. My post was not a 'meaningless triade' - if you read it, you'll see I did explain my reasoning for my opinion, in fact I have done several times now throughout the thread and so won't keep repeating it. You're correct that I have researched in that way, statistics etc, but that isn't the only basis for my opinion, in fact its only a small part. I have also experienced violent crime firsthand, and know many others who have too. That has played a far bigger part in shaping my opinion on the matter, as I keep telling you. I've made clear from day one on this forum that I am not, nor have been, a police officer, so I don't see what you're trying to prove by continuously pointing it out - if it was about an operational policing matter of which you'd need policing experience then I'd agree with you, but you'll find I don't comment on such topics (unless to ask questions out of curiosity etc). Violent crime is not solely a policing matter, it can affect anyone and you don't need to of been a police officer to experience violence - living in undesirable areas, you can see, and experience a lot. Therefore, you can have an informed opinion on things like self defence. If used to prevent harm to yourself, that is self defence, under common law. Not with a licence type system. They would be no more legal for criminals to obtain or possess than they are at present. Again we come back to the USA. American gun culture is completely different to my proposal of non-lethal sprays etc being made obtainable upon licence and carried under certain conditions. For what its worth, I share your view on guns, and would absolutely hate to see them become so widely available as they are in the USA. Much like when the discussion of routine police arming comes up, I prefer to look at other countries in Europe for comparison, rather than the USA. The USA isn't the only country in the world where pepper sprays are legal, in fact Britain is one of very few countries where it isn't. Most countries in Europe allow it, and don't have mass shootings like in America - but then pepper sprays and the likes don't have any link to mass murders with guns as they are of course two completely separate things.
  18. Availability of offensive weapons

    Good luck with a very expensive hobby...!
  19. Availability of offensive weapons

    Cheers for that! I used to be a member if the local rifle club, but only used club guns. Originally used to shoot in Army cadets, that was where I learned I was a decent shot. Wifely bar has been lifted when I suggest a motorbike, as she worked out I'm less likely to end up in hospital if I'm shooting.
  20. Availability of offensive weapons

    There is no requirement for a safety course here, and even my experience was barely questioned. There is no standardisation across the country.
  21. There needs to be some kind of uniformity in taser policies otherwise you'll end up with probationers in some forces carrying taser and an entire shift in another force without one. We all face the same risks but have less options in some parts of the country than others. It's not right at all.
  22. Availability of offensive weapons

    In the US you can buy almost anything in stores or on Flea markets. The items are not illegal in the States but fortunately over here they are illegal to possess and to offer to sell. The problem comes with the internet where you can buy almost anything on line from abroad and hope that the parcel manages to get through. Would you fancy facing some idiot who had armed himself with an offence weapon. It will happen to a Police Officer at some time but, I would bet that no officer on here would ever want to. Firearms possession in this country is a bit of a red herring as to obtain them, legally, in this country, is rightly very heavily regulated. The topic is about the availability of offensive weapons. Now virtually anything could be used as an offensive weapon, and I believe that the topic was meant to relate to weapons which are deemed to be for offence only and therefore illegal, and that applies to sprays, as well as lock knives, flick knives, etc, etc.
  23. Availability of offensive weapons

    If you were applying for a F1 or Shotgun and you gave your reason as "For self defence" then you could guarantee that you would not be issued with one. The reason for applying for such licences would have to be bone fide reasons, and for use in a suitable place. I note that you say you had a firearms licence but it was certainly not issued for the purposes of self defence.
  24. Sweet success for Met officer back to work after biscuit case crumbles MPS, however, insists taking him through the misconduct process was correct thing to do and sill accuses officer of 'misappropriation' of biscuits. A Met PC who was put on restricted duties for 19 months over unfounded accusations he stole a fellow officer’s biscuits is “looking forward” to coming back to work, his lawyer has said. After a three-day misconduct hearing an independent panel dismissed allegations PC Thomas Hooper had pinched a Cadbury’s selection box and lied about it and had also fibbed in an exemption application for a fixed penalty notice. PC Hooper had handed out the sugary snacks to several other officers towards the end of a night shift on May 7, 2016 but the panel found no evidence he knowingly stole them as there was a culture of leaving out refreshments for colleagues at Kingston station. In fact the biscuit owner, PC Joshi, had already opened the first tier of the selection box herself to share out shortly before the May 7 incident. PC Hooper had also been “clear and upfront” about his reasons for speeding at 51mph in a 30 zone while on duty on May 3, 2016, the panel found. Speaking on PC Hooper’s behalf, lawyer Ben Summers told Police Oracle: “PC Hooper is relieved to have been cleared of any wrongdoing. “He is now looking forward to getting on with his job, serving the people of Kingston.” A spokesman for MPS confirmed PC Hooper, attached to the Kingston Operational Command Unit, will immediately be returning to full duties. They said the investigation was delayed “while the criminal process around the traffic offence took place.” But added it was with “just cause” the incidents were “considered to have potentially breached the high standards of behaviour the public rightly expect…to act with professionalism and integrity at all times.” “At the heart of the allegations against this officer, was dishonesty. “The misleading account given on the request to cancel the Notice of Intended Prosecution could have been considered as perverting the course of justice while the ‘misappropriation’ of the biscuits could have been considered as theft. “The MPS remains committed to preventing and detecting inappropriate behaviour by police employees and holding them to account where it occurs.” James Price, Campaign Manager at the TaxPayers' Alliance said: “The resources expended in this case really does take the biscuit, and is part of a pattern that reveals the police are not spending their time and money as effectively as they could or should be.” View On Police Oracle
  25. Clearly a bit of a slow news day. Hardly groundbreaking stuff here.
  26. Police - Extra Equipment?

    I just have a small keyring torch that hangs off my vest zip. Plenty of light, right location, not heavy enough to pull the zip down. Couple of quid
  27. Availability of offensive weapons

    Again, the firearms enquiry officer will ask about your experience with shotguns, and whether you have taken lessons. If you haven't, and don't have some suitable alternative experience, they will generally require you to put yourself through a shotgun safety course. That is training. Yes, I am suggesting ongoing training, just as Police officers have to maintain ongoing training. Just like with firearms licensing in this country, the value of having it is up to the individual. If people don't want to do it, they won't. I'd like to point out I haven't actually identified any particular weapons system. I'm not particularly fond of CS. The problem in the US isn't necessarily that people have firearms, it's the sheer availability of firearms. If you restricted firearms to licence holders, and imposed licensing conditions, there would be far fewer gun-related problems. I agree however that having any weapons, legally or not, means more of those weapons on the street; the problem is that we are ultimately failing to protect people from violent crime now. Criminals know that if they get on a moped they're almost guaranteed to get away, because nobody is going to chase them. *Banned from carrying anything legally. Nobody is naïve enough to think a licensing system would prevent criminals from carrying weapons, what it does do, is stop them buying it in a shop. It's not a perfect system, but requiring licensees to properly secure their weapons at all times, and having penalties for failing to do so (as there currently is with firearms certificates) currently seems to work. I'm not sure firearms are really being pushed as a self-defence option anyway, but either way, I suspect you're falling into the classic trap of 'but we don't want to be like the US'. The problems in the US with gun ownership are with the lack of control, or even significant attempts to control it. We in this country have gone too far in the opposite direction. I personally wouldn't suggest allowing private citizens to carry conventional firearms (actual guns, not technically-associated weapons under the Firearms Act) in a self-defence capacity; however I absolutely do think we should be allowed to own pistols for the purposes of sport shooting.
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