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  2. I suppose for them it improves their “detections,” whilst there is no oversight on how many of the detections result in a misconduct outcome at the hearing and no fall out for them either way.
  3. Seems like the IOPC does not make decisions on the weight of evidence, but that they are just interested in putting officers in front of tribunals when the evidence just does not support it. Nothing new I suppose.
  4. Sceptre

    New MOT rules

    There are two distinct offences here, S2 dangerous driving and S40A using a vehicle in a dangerous condition. For S2 "dangerous" means a danger of injury to any person or serious damage to property; for S40A it simply means danger of injury to any person. For dangerous driving to be made out it would have to be obvious to the careful and competent motorist that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous - the more obscure the fault, the harder that would be to prove. I'm looking forward to a lot of chavved up boy racer cars failing their MOTs on their noisy exhausts, removed DPFs and misaligned blinding HID headlight kits.
  5. Today
  6. Chaos

    CCTV - share or not to share....

    Thank you I will use that [emoji106]
  7. bensonby

    CCTV - share or not to share....

    S.29 of the Data Protection Act provides an exemption for the purposes of the detection and prevention of crime so I don’t see why you couldn’t share it. It could theoretically predujice an investigation if Code D was breached but I think that’s not a major consideration. I believe the new legislation contains a similar exemption to s.29.
  8. I'm currently following a discussion at the moment of a Facebook crime forum. Somebody on that forum wants to share CCTV of a suspect committing a burglary. The admin on that forum is refusing to share the footage as it breaches data protection. Is there any issues with someone with private home CCTV circulating the footage on social media to assist in identifying the suspect? Can this compromise a police investigation or the resulting court hearings? Does circulating CCTV of a male breaking into a house in fact breach someone's data protection, especially with the new General data protection rules ?
  9. BlueBob

    New MOT rules

    I'd suggest that before leaping to a Section 2 Dang Driving based on the MOT report, I'd be wanting to justify the fault and its affect on the component / action first. The MOT result may be a handy indicator of faults to look at but it would be a hazardous game to play if the officer were to use it as the justification or evidence of the offence in itself.
  10. cookyy2k

    New MOT rules

    For those who're unaware on Monday the MOT rules changed so that instead of just a fail the defects are now split into two categories major and dangerous. Does this have any change on the enforcement? For example a car presented early under the new rules fails on a dangerous defect, clearly it cannot be driven away from the station as it has been judged in a dangerous condition even if it has MOT remaining. However, the fact we now catagorise it dangerous doesn't mean it wasn't on the old rules and so should not really have been driven away. It is just a case that now it is far easier to put forward that they knew or should have known it is in a dangerous condition and does that mean dangerous driving will be considered in some occasions where a ticket for the defect would have previously been considered? Adding to this the new category of "dangerous" includes dangerous to the environment not just in the mechanical sense, will this negate the usefulness of this category for showing a careful and competent driver would know the vehicle is in a dangerous state?
  11. Chief Cheetah

    New MOT rules

    Legal Disclaimer This area of the forum is intended for members to seek advice on Law and Police Procedures applicable to England & Wales. Just like you would pop into your local police station to should the need arise. Any advice on a specific area of law is from either currently-serving UK police officers, and is offered to the best of their ability, or from members of the public who are perhaps aspiring to be serving police officers and may not hold the necessary level of knowledge to provide such assistance or by any other member who may offer their opinion. Either way such advice can only be treated as an opinion and nothing more. Members should look for the Verified Members Badge that appears on the posters name as advice from members holding this badge are verified police employees. The information is based on their own individual experiences, expertise and training. It is stressed, however, that if any information or advice found in these forums is used by any person or organisation, then the respective police officer(s) and staff can not and will not take any responsibility for any outcome in any investigation in a criminal or civil enquiry. Any advice or opinion offered is to the best of the individuals knowledge and ability based on the information you have supplied, and we will stress that we will never be knowingly misleading or untruthful in content. Please note, we do not offer advice or assistance in order to avoid penalties that you have incurred or maybe pending.Such requests are deemed to be of an Operational nature and against our main Forum Rules.You should always seek Legal Advice from a Qualified Solicitor in the event of any impending prosecutions or other involved legal matter.Police Community Team
  12. The case to answer test is nonsensical and is l, indeed, broken. The test is “could” a hearing make a finding that gross misconduct is proven. Not “are likely to” or similar - “could” has been interpreted as “is there any possibility” so unless the investigator can essentially prove that the officer didn’t commit gross misconduct then there is a case to answer and you must hold a hearing. That is clearly nonsensical but that is the current state of the law in the decision of The Chief Executive of The IPCC -V- The IPCC (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2016/2993.html). Saying that it is essentially always right for a hearing to decide guilt for some bizarre notion of “confidence” is self-evidently nonsense. It creates additional delay, putting both officers and complainants under needless stress when it is clear that it would never be proven in a million years. The notion that “confidence” of certain complainants is more important than officers’ livelihoods and health is also insulting in the extreme. A thorough investigation that demonstrates that there is not sufficient evidence to bring proceedings can, if properly written and rationalised, provide all the “confidence” (in the process) that is needed.
  13. If only they would accept that people are not forced to commit these crimes on scooters. It is the offenders choice and they have no compunction about injuring victims. We are still in a society that values victims less than the criminal and assailant.
  14. Blue_Homer

    Drunk serviceman on MOD base

    Sensible [emoji23]
  15. Officer W80 has been cleared by CPS and force but still faces losing his job. Phill Matthews Directing gross misconduct hearings when officers have been cleared by their forces are a waste of time and give families false hope. Those were the views of Police Federation misconduct lead Phill Matthews at the staff association’s annual conference today. A panel was asked about the direction to hold a gross misconduct hearing for the firearms officer who shot Jermaine Baker in 2015. Last week the Crown Prosecution Service said there is no criminal case against the officer – known as W80 – and the Met said he should not face misconduct proceedings, but the IOPC directed them to take place. Independent Office for Police Conduct director general Michael Lockwood had earlier acknowledged issues of trust exist towards his organisation from the police service, but also the public. He said: “We’ve said there could be a case to answer, it’s a panel that makes a finding. We’re not judge and jury on this, the fact is the panel judges. Going through that process is about giving confidence in system.” He added there are different types of tests for prosecutions and gross misconduct investigations but the former council chief executive added the threshold for whether there “could be a case to answer” is up for review. “We have a case to answer test that’s been met. I’m happy we have a discussion about what we mean by ‘could’,” he said. The IOPC points out since 2010 there have been 29 firearms officers treated as witnesses and just three as suspects. But Mr Matthews said: “We think [the case to answer is] broken and it does need completely resetting. It lets families down as it gives them false hope that something might happen. “It completely demolishes morale for a long time afterwards.” He added: “It’s a waste of money, a waste of time and does nothing to increase public confidence." View On Police Oracle
  16. Radman

    What exactly is litter?

    Which is stupid advice from a supervisor. The cop has the PND ticket for littering and can issue one based on the evidence offered by the environmental warden and as stated the man has already committed a separate offence of failing to provide details to the council warden. A few years ago I was called to the same scenario with a warden and a man refusing to provide details, I informed the individual he had two options. 1. He provide his details to the warden and be issued with the fine. 2. I'd deal with the matter in a police capacity including failing to provide his details to the warden and if he refused details to me I would be arresting him and taking him to custody. He gave his name and address to the warden in the end.
  17. Funkywingnut

    Drunk serviceman on MOD base

  18. First big thing that needs changing for everything the police do is to assure officers they will not be thrown under the bus or dragged through years of protracted investigations over every incident. All too often we hear on here about officers afraid to act or to not act due to the iopc waiting in the wings, even if they can completely justify everything it's still 2 years plus of stress and worry.
  19. Don't get too excited - its still just proposals. Not even an outline, and as it seems to include responding to emergency calls, the proposal will also apply to the other blue light services. Do we see a giant committee and review coming along. Perhaps putting it into context and a timely reminder that S19 Road Safety Act 2006 (12 years ago) on exemptions to speed limits is yet to be implemented so is also just a 'Proposal". Something so simple is still too difficult to enact!
  20. Blue_Homer

    Drunk serviceman on MOD base

    Fantastic response, thank you! I'm very much a 'tool box' person and like to have options which I CAN use but don't necessarily NEED to. Are you MDP by any chance funkywingnuts?
  21. bensonby

    Civil Injunctions vs CBO

    This is territory a little alien to me: can you arrest for contempt for a suspected breach there and then irrespective of the injunction or does the injunction have to have a power of arrest attached or do you need to apply for a warrant? Also, I take it you have to convey them straight to court for the court’s next sitting?
  22. Manchester Arena attack: Anniversary to be marked in city 22 May 2018 Related TopicsManchester Arena attack Image copyright AFP A cathedral service, a minute's silence and a sing-along vigil will mark the first anniversary of the Manchester Arena attack. Twenty-two people were killed and hundreds injured when Salman Abedi detonated a bomb at the end of an Ariana Grande concert on 22 May 2017. Prime Minister Theresa May and Prince William will attend the memorial service at Manchester Cathedral. The national minute's silence will start at 14:30 BST. Memorial service Image copyright Getty Images Image caption Theresa May and the Duke of Cambridge will join families of victims and emergency workers who helped them The Duke of Cambridge and Mrs May will join families of victims and emergency workers who went to their aid. Only those with invitations can attend, but people will be able to watch the service on a big screen in the nearby cathedral gardens, and further afield at York Minster, Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral and Glasgow Cathedral. 'I must've died 200 times in my nightmares' Arena bomb 'injured more than 800' Vigil and sing-along Image copyright Various Image caption Twenty-two people were killed in the blast on 22 May 2017 The Manchester Together With One Voice event takes place between 19:00 and 21:00 and will bring together choirs from the city and beyond. The final half hour will be a sing-along broadcast live on BBC Radio Manchester. Families of the 22 people killed were invited to select lyrics, and members of the public were asked to make suggestions online. Attack 'could have been stopped' City finds strength in music and sport Manchester City Council leader Sir Richard Leese said music was "in Manchester's soul", as was shown in the aftermath of the attack when "spontaneous song captured the city's spirit". A crowd sang Don't Look Back In Anger by Oasis at a vigil following the attack. He said: "Coming together in song will once again demonstrate that remarkable sense of togetherness." Moment of explosion Image caption The vigil and sing-along will be held at Albert Square At 22:31 bells across the city centre will ring out to mark the moment of the explosion. Bells at Manchester Town Hall, St Ann's Church and St Mary's Roman Catholic Church will sound in tribute to the victims. Light show Image copyright Reuters Image caption Thousands of tributes were left at St Ann's Square after the attack A further event, named There Is A Light, will run between Tuesday and Saturday with song lyrics projected on to St Ann's Church and other parts of St Ann's Square. St Ann's Square became a focal point for tributes in the wake of the bombing, with many thousands of wreaths left by well-wishers. Some of the flowers were later composted and the soil used for the Trees of Hope Trail, where trees were planted around the city centre. Members of the public can write messages on special tags to be attached to the Japanese maple trees until Tuesday evening. View the full article
  23. 22 May 2018 The officer, who has worked tirelessly to help women trapped in street sex work, has been recognised with the national Women in Policing Award. PC Tina Newman has helped transform attitudes towards sex workers. Twenty years ago, the attitude of the local community and police family was very different to what it is today. The women had no confidence in the police, with their vulnerabilities being misunderstood and misinterpreted. By building trust, Tina engaged with local community groups and became a role model for other police officers and staff. Prior to the introduction of Independent Sexual Violence Advisers, PC Newman helped women through the initial report of rape, and through court appearances, which was pivotal in securing convictions against very dangerous offenders. PC Newman has participated in regional and national consultations and initiatives, one of which was working on the Home Office consultation on the legislation used to manage prostitution. As well as organising two operations which have tackled both on-street and off-street sex work, Tina has also been instrumental in a regular inter-agency perpetrator programme which has had a 93 per cent success rate. It is down to PC Newman’s encouragement and support that, many women are making changes to rebuild their self-esteem and ability to trust. On receiving her award, PC Newman said: “My role has enabled me to support some incredible women when they have had to endure giving evidence in crown court, having been subjected to horrific sexual assaults. “We help women know that they can trust the police, but also know that society will not tolerate such violence against them. “Recognising the importance of raising awareness of the issues sex workers endure, I have been able to provide training to new recruits, colleagues and partner agencies. I hope the training gives people a better understanding and tolerance towards individuals. “I am proud to have ‘played my part’ in the changes Avon and Somerset Constabulary have made to how we now police ‘on street’ prostitution in Bristol. The organisation now recognises sex workers' vulnerability and that they are victims. The standard practise of arresting women who loiter has stopped and there is a much better understanding of all aspects of this activity and of all those involved and impacted upon. “We have a true partnership approach which I am very proud of. “Finally, I would give a very special heartfelt thank you to the amazing support agency ‘The One25’ who offer the most incredible support to women working on the streets of Bristol and a personal ‘thank you’ to Sgt Emma Slade who has a passion and drive that is infectious and I am very privileged to have been able to work and be supported by.” Sam Roberts, the National Women’s Reserve Chair for the Police Federation of England and Wales said: “It was tough to have to choose a winner because all nominees have achieved so much, but Tina’s story stood about because the panel felt she had gone above and beyond what would be expected of a Police Constable. She works within a very difficult and sensitive field of policing. “She is able to give a voice to those who are often overlooked. I congratulate her on winning this award and thank her for all her contribution to policing. “ View the full article
  24. 22 May 2018 The Federation has given a "cautious welcome" to the news that the Government is to consult on proposed changes to the law in relation totrained police drivers. Pursuits lead Tim Rogers says the development is a move in the right direction after the Home Office today (Tuesday) launched a consultation on proposals to amend proposes the legislation on careless and dangerous driving to recognise the high level of training and skill possessed by trained police drivers. It also aims to clarify the situation regarding officers who pursue motorcyclists, and will also ask for views as to whether the changes should also apply to police response driving. Mr Rogers said: "We welcome this announcement as it is unacceptable to have officers trained to drive in a way that exposes them to prosecution merely for doing the job the public expect of them. "But I stress this is a cautious welcome. This has been an issue we have been campaigning on now for seven years, and although it is a positive step that the Government have finally agreed that a legislation change is required, they must now act quickly to prevent more officers suffering unnecessary and often mendacious prosecutions. "It is crucial we protect the people who protect us and give them the confidence to be able to do their jobs and keep the public safe. "I would like to extend my thanks to Sir Henry Bellingham for his ongoing committment to this Bill." The Home Office says that the changes would send a clear message that criminals cannot escape arrest simply by driving recklessly. And that they aim to ‘smash the myth’ that officers cannot pursue riders who are not wearing helmets by making it clear that a suspect is responsible for their own decision to drive dangerously and that blame should not be attached to the pursuing officer. Under current law, the same legal test for careless and dangerous driving offences is applied to police officers and the general public. Police have expressed concern that officers have to rely on Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) discretion to avoid prosecution and face lengthy Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) investigations and suspension from duty, only to be cleared eventually. The Government is consulting on a separate test for police drivers that would require: · An officer to drive to the standard of a careful and competent police driver of a similar level of training and skill; and · That the driving tactics employed, including any exemptions from road traffic legislation, such as speed limits, or contact with a suspect vehicle, are authorised appropriately and are both necessary and proportionate. Minister for Policing and the Fire Service, Nick Hurd, said: "Police officers must have the confidence to pursue suspects where it is safe to do so and criminals should be in no doubt that they will not get away with a crime by simply driving recklessly. Our proposed changes will make sure that skilled police drivers who follow their rigorous training are protected, while ensuring the minority of officers who do cross the line are robustly held to account." View the full article
  25. 22 May 2018 Michael Lockwood, Director General of the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), said: “ We are an organisation that provokes strong opinions. But respect – from all sides – is what I would wish to achieve. Changing from the IPCC to the IOPC will not just be about a new logo.” “We will not always agree. And the IOPC will not always be popular. But I hope an unwavering focus on true impartiality, combined with better listening and improved relationships with communities [and the police] will help us earn respect on both sides, even in disagreement.” Investigators from the organisation have already begun training alongside officers to better understand the issues the police face. “But neither does it mean we can’t meet with community campaigners to talk about stop and search; or that we shouldn’t develop supportive and professional relationships with bereaved families through our family liaison team.” Mr Lockwood also talked of a shift from the blame culture to one of performance and learning. He said : “ I don’t want to see officers sanctioned because of a genuine mistake which could be better dealt with as an opportunity to learn and improve. Many of those I have spoken to have supported the need for an improved approach to addressing unsatisfactory performance within the police, so that mistakes and poor performance are recognised and treated as such – and the disciplinary route is focussed on the most serious matters.” He admitted lengthy investigations were a problem: “I know that it can be a very difficult experience for the officers involved. The situation can be made worse if their lives are put on hold for too long, waiting for an outcome. The headline from you is that we are bureaucratic and slow. It won’t surprise you to hear that tackling this issue will be a big priority for me.” Currently, he said the IOPC, which replaced the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) in January, completed roughly a third of their investigations within six months, and two thirds within a year. But he said delays were not just of their own making – other agencies, such as the Crown Prosecution Service, coroner, pathology services also played a part. At the end of 2017/18 they had completed 709 investigations. Federation conduct lead Phill Matthews said he welcomed the changes: “We are beginning to see change and reform at the IOPC. We asked for a performance culture and are working with all parties to create a new process which should hopefully take a large chunk of what used to be classed as misconduct out of the system. But he added: “There are some challenges ahead of us for sure. The Jermaine Baker decision highlights the problem with the ‘case to answer’ test. We are yet to be convinced that the IOPC have fully resolved this or fully understand the implications long time delays have for everyone involved. The recent decisions on the Sean Rigg case in the Met after a 10 year wait and the Thomas Orchard case in Devon and Cornwall after nearly six years waiting cause us concern.” He told the Director General: “The ball is now firmly in your court. Our 120,000+ police officers are looking to you to prove that if they are investigated that they will be treated fairly, proportionately and a lot quicker by your organisation than before.” View the full article
  26. Yesterday
  27. I will half accept that timed exposures adds some stress factors, but not sufficient to give officers exposure to real stressors they would face in a live encounter. I know some people will pipe up with comments about health and safety etc, but my questions are: is the officer out of breath, is the officer aware of the timing of the exposure, Is the officer surprised by the exposure, are the officers using simulation rounds and spending long enough between serials (as they would in real life) to test their reactions, are transitions from primarily to secondary weapons tested, are the officers made to go from a physical encounter to a lethal one? and vice versa. I honestly don't know the answers, I hope some of it is a yes, but when I look at the OST/PST syllabus and its standards of training, I know it is insufficient for real life, so I can only presume so is some of the forearms training. I am happy to be proven wrong and I hope I am, for the sake of the officers, because there is more to using firearms than walking around looking cool and a false sense of security is a dangerous thing. So what could ex military people offer in a fast track scheme? Well many have experienced real firefights, some over prolonged periods where fatigue plays a significant part, weight of kit, etc, years of stressful testing, its relevant to a degree. But I still want cops not squaddies with guns, because thats the role. I m still for arming all police as they do in NI, it works.
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