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  1. Just to echo some of what has been said already, and as a police officer who works in a country where we lose far too many officers each year, if anything it would be a dishonor to Keith's memory to not discuss ways to keep this from happening again and move in that direction. Sometimes these discussions go places we don't want to go, and that's ok, but it's important. The questions should be now not only why, but what can you do to keep it from happening again, whether that means a change in tactics, training, equipment, policy, etc. Our FBI actually has a whole unit devoted to studying line of duty deaths and then teaches a class to law enforcement on what went wrong and how to change it. Many of the things we do now, we do because of those that have fallen before us. Do not let Keith's death to have been in vain. My own thoughts, as are probably already known, is you need to be armed. Period. No offence intended but I don't feel that it should be a personal choice it should be policy. Baton, spray, taser, firearm. Not in your car. Not in the office. On your side. Everywhere you go. Personal choice is when no one else's life is at stake but your own. When it is your duty to protect others then you should be equipped as such. We may not know if Keith being armed would have saved his life but it certainly could have given him a better chance. You can't overlook that it was the armed officers who stopped the threat from continuing on. If they weren't where they were who knows how many other victims there would be. This is the world we live in now and it's time to take notice as unfortunately, it's not going away. We're a target because of the uniform we wear. We will be one of the first ones targeted because to the attacker, we are now the threat that is standing in their way and the only one who can stop them. Head on a swivel everyone.
  2. Go ahead and be concerned on my behalf then. I do my job with integrity and professionalism, and that includes taking the breaks I am entitled to. I refuse to be bullied out of taking my refreshments in public by a vocal minority.
  3. i'll sum up all of his posts for you so you never have to wonder modern police bad. when i was in police i good. repeat ad nauseam
  4. It's still not arrogant. 'The public' consists of all sectors of the public. Some will insist that it's okay to eat in public : some will not. Some will say that it's okay to eat in public but not at a capitlist multinational fast food outlet. Some will say that it's okay to eat at a local establishment because it encourages growth of local markets. Are police officers to listen to them all and then make some sort of informed decision on where it is ok to eat? No, I don't suppose that's particularly practical. Should police officers then retire to the police station because they are unable to make a decision regarding where to eat in public? That's a nice option to have but, as you know from your many years as a dog handler, access to a police station whilst out and about is not always practical. Should Growley sit with furrowed brow whilst gettting hungrier and hungrier, worrying over what 'the public' thinks is okay? I would suggest, not. I think that, like many other officers across the UK, Growley would think something along the lines of what has been written, ie I'm going to feed my face and anyone who doesn't like it can poke it. Is that really such a terrible sentiment to have? I would suggest that most of the public couldn't care less where and how police, ambulance and other similar civil service workers take their breaks - those who do decide to make a big noise about it are possibly those for whom I personally give little thought.
  5. "I'm pregnant, can I wee in your hat?" No. "CanI just have a selfie with you?" No. "I'm drunk. Do you know where my hotel is? " "what's it called?" "Don't know." "What street is it on?" "Don't know." Go away. "can I ask you a question?" "You just did." "You can't do that. I/my friend is a lawyer." Very good. Go away, I am doing it. "My dad knows the chief constable." "Very good. Go away, I am still doing it. "I am a bouncer. 'X' did this and I have written my own statement." "Wow, thanks. You have saved me tons of time"* *you have wasted my time and yours. you will be cold, accosted, deal with buffoons, and when dealt with deal with more , see lots of vomit, deal with snowflake bouncers, deal with really good bouncers and get really annoyed with drunken snowflake kids. good luck
  6. Let me know if you find a drone thats £4m+.. I'll be expecting it to prevent crime, make pre-emptive arrests, transport, interview and charge without any human involvement. Without wanting to get rid of ASU (which I think are a vital asset that will, especially for the not-to-distant future, have greater benefits than drones), I think drones are perfect for use with limited ASU capabilities and also the cost to lift helicopters for tasks such as to search the roof of premises for thieves on, or to search specified open land for persons/items etc.
  7. I fully support the officers actions. What is the point of having flowers planted by the Council if anyone can just come and take as many as they wish? Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  8. You'll wear what you are told to wear. Simple, isn't it?
  9. Time for an NHS Police ?
  10. Call involving edged weapons should be an ARV deployment in my mind, no two ways about it.
  11. Not like the Met to totally ignore agreed national standards and do their own thing.
  12. As requested by @XA84! It's been a while since I last posted an update so I suppose it's about time. Since I last posted, it's been a mixture of really super busy weeks and weeks where we spend our days catching up on things that have changed since we were first taught them, things we missed and things we want to recap. It's really starting to feel like we're almost at the end now and it's kind of a bitter-sweet feeling. I can't wait to get out there, finally, after all these months training but I'm also going to miss my training family so much and I'm really worried about how I'll find it out there. We are half way through our six week split currently, where half of us stayed in HQ for our Investigative Interviewing course and the other half went off on the 3 week response driving course. I started with Interviewing, which I'm really glad about because once I'm back from driving there will only be three weeks left before we pass out. However, it has been hard listening to the other half of our group talking about all the fun they've had and places they've been on the driving, which sounds like such an amazing course. We have had our own fun in HQ though, with interview practicals being my favourite part. We covered No Comment interviews, which I found particularly interesting, as well as how to challenge people's accounts etc. I found it really difficult at the start to stop myself from using leading questions or asking 'Can you..' instead of imperatives, but after the first day everything seemed to fall into place and I got the hang of it and found myself excited to do the real thing. In our three weeks in HQ we've also had a massive practical day, where we were set up as if we were covering a town with an event on for the day and sent around to everyday tasks and small crimes when all of a sudden a major crime happens and we had to deal with it, which was fantastic. We've also had inputs from the Forensic team and Family Liaison Officer which were so interesting. We also had a Court Practical day following our court training which was a great insight into what it'll be like to stand in the witness box. My role play included being questioned on my age and how I could possibly know this and that at the age of twenty, which I'm actually really glad was brought up as I'm sure it will be out there and I felt like I held my ground pretty convincingly and had good feedback afterwards, so happy days! By far one of my favourite things we've done throughout our training so far was our Water Rescue & Safety day which was on Thursday. We traveled up to a local fire station where we were plonked in a freezing cold river in dry suits and taught how to not only rescue casualties from the water but also self-rescue in strong currents. It was an absolutely fantastic day and a brilliant team-building exercise, although it was only half of our team with us. The trainers were brilliant and it was nice to get away from the strictness of HQ and have a bit of a laugh and a joke for the day, it was a right blast. Not to mention the fact that, being a swimmer, this day was right up my street. We followed this perfectly by another team-building exercise, which was our own kind of 'end of course' night out to Cardiff to make the most of our last few weeks together. This was also right up my street as a self-proclaimed amazing drunk dancer. I'm really going to miss the people I've become so close to, spending the last five months as one big family, and it'll be weird to all be split up but I'm hoping I become just as close to the people on my shift at my station. Come Tuesday I'll be starting the Response Driving course which I'm so, so excited about but also a little bit nervous because I'm a terrible passenger, I don't get sick but I'm the person who will sit there slamming on my imaginary break in the passenger seat. I'm sure it'll be fine though, and from the other group's stories it's the best part of the training. We've had another course start in HQ a few weeks ago which is nice, it's great to have a few new faces around the place and especially in the hotel. Other than that, I'm just pushing myself more in the gym despite a minor knee injury ready to get out there and trying to get my head together and plan for the real world now. 6 weeks to go, and counting! Thanks for reading, Alice.
  13. Who is, or what makes a hero? I served 10 years in an infantry regiment, including tours in Afghanistan, Iraq & Northern Ireland. I'd be hard pushed to name 'a hero', although i know many people who have carried out acts that were courageous. Most of them were doing things than I'd have trusted any of the other lads to have also done. It's just the job. I doubt any of them think of themselves as 'a hero'.
  14. The police is a service which can never expect to get top marks in the 'good job survey'. The very nature of the role will mean at any one time there will be a number of people, due to their lack of law abiding credentials and anti social view of life, will bring them into conflict with the police. Public confidence is fickle and expectations always high and often selfish. Try telling a person who has sat in a traffic jam for two hours that you're sorry they haven't moved but the road has been closed due to a multivehicle serious injury/fatal accident and you hope the road will reopen soon, and you are not guaranteed an understanding response. The officer's lot is not a happy one. We bring bad news, tell people to do things they want to do, hold people to account, and as we know wear many hats (social worker, mental health nurse, street cleaner, party pooper). The question really should be is 'Do you have confidence in the police to do the job they SHOULD be doing?
  15. This. The fact that we seem to have the discussion so often suggests to me something is wrong. Something which adding a few hundred extra ARVs isn't necessarily going to solve. I think part of the problem is for the British, and I use the term British on purpose because our Northern Irish population play a whole different ballgame, to accept that our 'best police in the world because we are unarmed' is a great lie. We should not closely compare ourselves to the US because over the past century our gun culture has evolved to the pointment that whilst we both still have a right to bear arms in constitutional law one nation takes it as a historic doctrine and the other takes it as almost positive inviolable sacrament despite the impact. I think if we look at the continent, after all the same liberals who scream outrage at an armed police force are often to be heard claiming we share an inseparable common culture with EU nations, that is where we can draw some good practice on police use of firearms. I wonder how many deaths, police and public, have been averted by routine arming of the police in Europe. If the answer is more than 1 or 2, which could often be explained away by chance or luck etc, then I feel we have a duty to have a long hard talk about the issue without relying on false Dixon of Dock Green rhetoric. To me the idea that some police would be unable to be well trained enough to be trusted with a firearm suggests to me that we have a real issue with the substance of police officers in this country - and I don't think that's true. I'm sure similar grumbles of 'impossible' or 'goes against everything we believe' appeared when female police officers were employed in operational roles. *** I expect the eventual Home Office report will find 'Police Reform is working and crime is falling.'
  16. This just goes to show what happens when there aren't enough officers and everyone is tired, rushing around, dealing with loads of investigations.... things get missed and corners cut. It's bad for the victims and it reflects poorly on the service. #cutshaveconsquences
  17. You could try asking the local postman. I'm currently a postman and I know exactly which houses/doors/flats are tainted with the smell of cannabis.
  18. Maybe he got confused between Ireland and Northern Ireland. This might help him!
  19. Would anyone like to tell Assistant Chief Constable Wayne Mawson about PSNI?
  20. OMG you mean police officers eat and drink and pee and never mind. There was I thinking they were some sort of super humans with no bodily functions
  21. I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who swears an oath to the Queen. Mainly because it usually entails signing away human rights and accepting less favourable working conditions for pay less than equivalent work might pay in the private sector. As for 'heroes'...there's plenty in public service but being in such service doesn't immediately qualify you as a hero. Usually the drunken squaddie who refers to himself as a hero is not. The policeman who spouts about how dangerous his job is to people down the pub probably works on a quiet neighbourhood team. The vast majority of heroes in public service go unrecognised, keeping their head down and serving their country proud.
  22. I know exactly what makes an arrest lawful. Clearly from your posts you do not have any idea whatsoever. You also clearly have no idea how a drone works or how it's controlled or any knowledge of the difference type of drones that exist or where and when they're used. It may blow your mind but I can maintain full control of my drone at distances of up to 4 miles if I wanted to, although clearly that would be out of my sight. I've tried to reason with you and offer a different point of view but you've only got one thing on your mind so I'm not going to bother anymore. Ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes!
  23. I've against my better judgement made a comment on the GMP Facebook post about this incident, speaking up in support of the armed officer/officers who have had to make a difficult split second decision to carry out an act that (i would expect) live with them for the rest of their lives. I'm absolutely staggered at the negativity and vitiol directed at the police regarding this incident when I'm sure at the centre of every decision made today was the necessity to protect the public.
  24. This is absolutely ridiculous. Surely there can't be that many differences in their current uniform whether it be black/white. No ties/cravats, flat caps/baseball caps for everyone. Everything else must surely be the same?! Or am I missing something? It also says they're giving language training to call handlers to avoid offence! How often to people find call handlers offensive? Is this an actual problem that needs a solution or is this a problem they've created so that they can provide a solution and show that they're doing something about the problem?
  25. British Bobbies fly by the seat of their pants when dealing with anyone wielding a weapon of any description. PST hardly touches on it, although any unarmed techniques require muscle memory formed through many hours of training, which is never going to happen. This is only useful if you find yourself too close to deploy any other defence or if you are not carrying any PSE. What is explained well in the link is that in the US, probably due to their gun culture, authorities do not expect officers to employ any other method than firearms to risks posed to an officer's safety by knives or other weapons, a luxury not afforded to British officers. In the US I suspect many of their law enforcement officers think cops here are nuts and cannot believe the risks officers take in tackling people armed with weapons. Whatever tactics unarmed officers employ, which may prove successful, I suspect is down more to luck and fortune than than anything else.
  26. Years ago when we had those new fangled fax machines we had to send some sensitive intelligence to another force quickly. The D.Supt had a little knowledge and declared, 'Fax it!' 'But it's is sensitive and anyone could be at the receiving end sir.' 'Then fax it in an envelope marked 'sensitive''. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  27. He would probably have a different perspective on things if people descended on his garden and started removing all his plants. Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk
  28. Hence the reason why you can't have armer police whose firearms are locked in the boot of the vehicle.
  29. I think it is, let's face it the general public have little idea how fast incidents like this develop. The media often doesn't help with so much repeated coverage and so many experts giving thier opinions there is information overload. This for me just brings a little perspective to the stark realities of this attack.
  30. Exactly the point I was making. People think our mere presence prevents attacks. I'm sure on some occasions it has. On others if not already our presence may attract an attack if the attacker wants to kill police. The thing that we are lacking right now is if when our presence somewhere does not have the desired dissuading effect or even attracts attack there is almost next to sod all the majority of us can do about it other than rely on good fortune and luck until the specialist armed officers can get on scene. One police officer was killed while working at one of the most saturated areas of the UK in terms of armed police officers. Potentially because there wasn't an armed officer close enough to protect him. If one police officer can be killed in such s place I hold little hope for the general public and fellow colleagues who live and work in rather more isolated areas. I include outer Met boroughs in the group of rather more isolated areas as well. They are far from the worst but they are not what people would expect from "THE MET"
  31. I have just seen a video on sky news from the incident. It is the first time I have seen this video. It was filmed by a tourist from North of the country. It's a very short clip but shows a lot. It was filmed in the courtyard and captures the moment the protection officer shoots the terrorist. The thing that strikes me the most is that the video captures at least four (4) uniformed unarmed police officers running for their lives in the same direction as every other member of public. The only person going the other way towards the threat is the protection officer. I am not criticising the officers running away. They did exactly what they had to and took the only sensible option available to them. They were in no position to protect themselves let alone members of public. If this 3-4 second clip does not highlight the exact reason why every police officer should be armed with a conventional firearm I don't know what does. I used to except others had different views to me in relation to the arming of police. I've never heard an argument for staying unarmed that made sense to me but I accepted the views of others. That has no changed. Anyone that stands up and says they are proud that Britain has the best police force in the world because we are routinely unarmed is deluded. Anyone that argues that routine arming is not the best option is wrong. Unfortunately I can't find a link to it right now. I will keep looking and post as soon as I find one. If anyone else can assist then I would be great full. Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  32. Can I just add thoughts also with PC Kris Aves, who has suffered life changing injuries and many hours surgery, along with his colleagues PC Roger Smith who has leg injuries and PC Bradley Bryant. They were on patrol together on Westminster Bridge when Masood ploughed through them along with the other innocent members of public who have been injured and killed by this terrorist. Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk
  33. Perhaps the most suitable disciplinary action would have been suitable re-training. The officer did nothing wrong in his actions at the store as far as I can tell. His stumbling block was the manor in which he recorded the actions. I believe the manor chosen was because ultimately he knew what he had done wasn't wrong but did not know the best way to articulate that in order for the auditors to agree. A simple refresher on acceptable outcomes and how to articulate them would suit all. The officer could continue being a credit to his force and a conscientious front line officer and the bean counters and auditors could have their tick in the box. Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  34. Questions like what? Surely the honest answer to the 'difficult questions' would be 'I went the extra mile because it was the wife's car.' or 'My son was beaten senseless, so I had another look at the CCTV.' I don't think we should not do things because of the prospect of 'difficult questions' if we did that, we'd never go to work (or leave the station when we got there). So long as you're honest about how and why you obtained the evidence, there shouldn't be a problem.* *Obviously I mean 'there shouldn't be any more problems than there normally are when it comes to getting evidence admitted in court.'
  35. He did an interview on Sky News that officers are completely loosing it on facebook and twitter about where he said that detectives take the job home with them and response and SNT officers take nothing home. On twitter there is the #itookhome hashtag which is trending.
  36. I'm spartacus. I too couldn't give two hoots what 'the public think' because for every member of the public who doesn't think we should I can find a member of public who thinks we should. Then we delve into how much value we can attach to a person's view on policing issues. OCGs probably couldn't give two hoots if police officers eat in public, ASBO youth probably don't like it and the elderly might very well find it reassuring. I do lots of things other members of the public don't like. I also do lots of things other police officers don't like.
  37. Lovely, noted. Now as I said, you can go back to being concerned on my behalf. In the mean time, I'll be having my refreshments... in public. Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  38. Whilst there are obvious issues in getting involved in an incident in which you have a personal interest you don't cease to be a police officer with all that involves just because you have a personal interest. Provided whatever you do is auditable and you are up front as to what you do and why then I don't really see any issues - provided for there is a legitimate policing purpose.
  39. As i understand it, most forces have a policy that if you are unhappy with the outcome of an investigation then you have a right to have it reviewed. However that could take some time to go though the process, and by that time the critical CCTV evidence that was missed might have been wiped. I think the officer did a simple enquiry that actually helped solve the case and he was not directly involved. Words of advice is the most that they could give him. Sent from my Moto G (4) using the Police Community App
  40. Bloke attacking somebody (or multiple people) with an axe and a knife is an SFI every day of the week in my book and I'd always declare it. However, that's not to say that I wouldn't ALSO deploy unarmed officers (especially STOs), and it might be that they are in a position to intervene to save life before the ARVs arrive.
  41. Well well well... I haven't posted on here since the 30th April 2015. Fast forward nearly two years and we've lost the likes of David Bowie and George Michael, Donald Trump is now President of the United States and England's football team still haven't won anything (I guess some things never change). On the 31st March, I handed in my scrupulously drafted application for a PC role and this morning, 10 days on, I received an email telling me that I was successful in the paper sift. One half of me is filled with an excitement that I'm finally back on the road to doing the job that I've always wanted to do, after 24 months of twiddling my thumbs and the other half of me filled with a sense of apprehension that it's going to be another 6-12 months of constantly refreshing my emails, as well as having to go through the SEARCH assessment again. In January 2015, I had a regs application withdrawn due to an unsatisfactory reference, after going all the way through the process and it honestly felt like the day would never come when I'd be looking at getting back in the saddle. I guess if anyone is in the same position - or even looking at the 6 month wait after rejection - it's a sh*tty time, there's not a lot you can do about it, but dust yourself down, get back up and do your time and the opportunity will come around again. Next step is the briefing for said assessment - I thought I'd blog the process, not sure if anyone is remotely interested or whether anyone will read this, but hopefully this time next year, I will be writing about training and the year after be writing about punch ups, fast car chases and telling naughty children to go to bed. England still won't have won anything by then mind...
  42. "See you tonight Love". "Ok take care" The conversation that every officer has every day on leaving for work, never knowing if he/she will return. R.I.P. Keith
  43. To suggest gender dysphoria is not mental health condition shows an absolute lack of knowledge... You've just described the classic symptoms of gender dysphoria in your post. There are lots of mental health conditions which share similar traits yet society has completely different attitudes to; body dysmorphia is but one. I'm all for exploring different people's needs and experiences but if we take 'normal' as the experiences of the majority then gender dysphoria is not 'normal'. There is quite alot of research to suggest that gender reassignment whether that be surgical or lifestyle has very limited long term success. It doesn't matter how much you pretend to be a different gender to your birth gender, whatever that may be, you will always know that you are not. Therefore you need to deal with the underlying mental health issue as well as making any adjustments which increase people's comfort in themselves. I have always been troubled with how LGBT came to be under one banner...homosexuality and bisexuality are extremely far removed from transgender issues - it's like linking racism support groups with blind support groups.
  44. Yes, I spent a day on a court operation with the Warrant Officers (albeit the ones I worked with were employed by HMC&TS and not a third party). They literally turn up at the wanted persons address, request either payment or make the arrest and covey them straight the to courts. They are specifically advised who has failed to pay and are issued warrants for those individuals by the courts. If these third party companies are contracted to undertake the work then they will still only be told who to go and deal with, they won't be able to target non-defaulters and they will still be able to do all the checks with HMC&TS if someone states they have paid and there is doubt about whether the warrant is required to be enforced.
  45. I've watched this topic develop and have in the main, enjoyed reading the discussion. However, I am now at the point where I honestly believe based on the utter drivel you write, that you have never been a Police Officer. Not because Police Officers don't talk drivel, but because of your complete lack of understanding of the most basic elements of Policing. Please, for the benefit of all those on the site who haven't been to the Zulu22 school of made up laws, explain your rationale and point to legislation that states arresting someone on suspicion of an offence satisfies both a) and b).
  46. I'm not comfortable putting it on a public forum but if you PM me your PNN email address then I will send it to you from work.
  47. @PCSD ahhhhh mate we have the same problem, office dwellers dictating a crime has occurred, even though there is no evidence of an offence when attending the incident. Obviously because someone says it happened, it must have done right?!!! I'll bet you if we crimed every incident where the IP says "they were trying to kill me" as attempted murder they would throw a fit! @Bacon_sandwich I will argue with whoever about recording crime that hasn't happened. Police officers are paid to make decisions, if I say a crime has not occurred, a crime has not occurred! Supervisors have so little faith in the officers under them that it's insulting. Mindlessly go along with SMT or suffer the consequences seems to be the norm!
  48. Not really a fair comment. The custody Sgt can't refuse a medical practioners decision that a detainee needs to go to hospital. Sadly detainees know how to play the game. A death in custody doesn't look good for anyone, particularly the Sgt, who isn't medically trained who decides to grow that backbone you speak off and not send someone to hospital. Good luck with the IPCC on that.
  49. I think what the article fails to appreciate is that the officer who takes the report is actually conducting an initial investigation - so everything is investigated, screening out means that at the point at which the crime reaches the crime reporting system, it's not deemed suitable for further secondary investigation. But that doesn't sound as good or as controversial to the DM readers. I agree with@HazRat.... I'd like to know how they suggest we solve or investigate the crimes with no CCTV, no witnesses, no forensic opportunities?..... Sent from my iPhone using Police Community
  50. Maybe Poundland and other shops were sick and fed up of losing stock to this prolific shoplifter. Maybe they felt that a recidivist who was affecting their profit so such an extent should be dealt with robustly. Maybe the staff didn't want to be made redundant when the shop closed down due to more stuff leaving the shop without going through the tills than was being paid for. The bottom line though is that the officer lied, he breached Standard 9 of the Code of Ethics. The way he dealt with the person may well have been laudable and his compassion in that regard is to be applauded but that doesn't excuse his subsequent dishonesty. There was a theft. The man clearly stole the biscuits. Because someone came along later and bought the biscuits, or gave the thief the money to buy them did not undo what had already been done. Had PC Rothwell recorded the crime and written it up with what he had done - explaining his decision making using the NDM then at worst there may have been a complaint from the store and his Sgt would have had a quiet word about whether it was an appropriate way of dealing with it. It's the story I've seen time and again but the telling always covers up the real story - usually it's not what an officer does that gets them into trouble it's the lying about what they did that does the damage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk